RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 12:28 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 12:30 pm by genkaus.)
(September 20, 2012 at 7:01 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: It seems to me that at the core of atheism is a deep "faith" in one's own cognitive abilities and their reliability in determining truth.
Nope. Belief in cognitive abilities is not a prerequisite for atheism.
(September 20, 2012 at 7:01 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: If atheism is true, then your cognitive abilities have evolved with the aim of survivability....not truth.
It's not an either/or option. Our cognitive abilities can help us survive only if they can determine the truth. And since they do help us survive, it stands to reason that they can determine what's true.
(September 20, 2012 at 7:01 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: To think that your own thoughts really are true is irrational.
Thoughts? I thought we were talking about cognition.
(September 20, 2012 at 7:01 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: Ex:
If I am driving down the road wanting to get to Orlando, FL and I see rocks on a hill near the road that spell out "Welcome to Orlando" I can either assume:
a.) the rocks were placed there by intelligent design
b.) the rocks rolled there by unguided processes and just have the appearance of design
If I assume (a) then it is rational to believe that the message spelled out by the rocks really is true since an intelligence placed them there. It is rational to believe that I really am entering Orlando.
However, if I assume (b) it is irrational to believe that the message spelled out by the rocks is true. They just happen to look like a message, but they really aren't a message. It would be irrational to believe that I really am entering Orlando.
Really? Those are the only two possibilities that occur to you? How about some intelligence did place them, but that is not the boundary of Orlando. Or, the rocks did fall there by chance and as it happens it is also the boundary of Orlando. Or some intelligence did place the rocks when it was the boundary of Orlando and since then the boundary has been changed. Or maybe you thought that the rocks spelled Orlando, but on a closer look, you discover that they spell nothing at all.
The rational thing to do here is to check your GPS and assume nothing. If you really want to solve the mystery of the rocks, then figure out if the potential physical forces that could have caused the rocks to fall, figure out if it could've happened naturally.
(September 20, 2012 at 7:01 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: Given atheism, if your own cognitive abilities have evolved, they have evolved with the aim of survival. On this system calling your conclusions "true" seems arbitrary and irrational....an act of blind faith.
Actually, the reason in specific and rational - it's because our cognitive abilities can help us determine the truth that they are able to achieve the aim of survival. Let me tell you a story.
Two cavemen are taking their usual walk in the woods when suddenly, all the miscellaneous jungle voices such as birds chirping, go silent. The first caveman, having better cognitive abilities notices this sudden change in the environment, while his dumber companion doesn't.
Caveman 1: Something coming. Danger. Run.
Caveman 2: No danger. Birds just tired.
Caveman 1: Look, tiger tracks. Tiger coming. Run.
Caveman 2: No tiger here for days. See nothing.
Just then they both hear a low rumbling sound.
Caveman 1: Hear. That tiger. Run.
Caveman 2: Just wind.
Exasperated, the first cave man gave up on his friend and ran back to his cave, while the second one - out of simple curiosity - decided to see where those tracks led.
The moral of the story is, because the first guy was able to use his abilities to determine the truth that he survived to go home, fuck his wife and have lots of kids who got his abilities. Whereas the second one became pussy-chow.
(September 20, 2012 at 7:07 am)Faith No More Wrote: Umm...no. One of the main reasons I am an atheist is that I am well aware of the unreliability of my cognitive abilities. Any notion that I have experienced the divine would be dismissed as a result of that unreliability. It is theists that rely too heavily on their mental faculties thinking they can determine the difference between errors in the brain and feeling the presence of god.
I think you are confusing cognitive facilities with something else. "Experiencing the divine" sounds like an emotional state - not a cognitive one.
