When Faith and Science Clash

[genkaus]

The following is copied from Reasonable Faith's website:

Let me give some examples of fine tuning because physics abounds with examples of fine tuning. But before I do so, let me give you some numbers to give you a feel for the delicacy of the fine tuning because otherwise the numbers are so large they become meaningless to us. The number of seconds in the history of the universe, from the very beginning of the universe, is about 10^17. That is a 1 followed by 17 zeroes. Just an incomprehensible number – but that is the number of seconds in the universe. The number of subatomic particles in the entire known universe is around 10^80.

With those numbers in mind, consider the following. The atomic weak force which operates within the nucleus of the atom is so finely tuned that an alteration of even one part out of 10^100 would have rendered the universe life-prohibiting. In order to permit life, the weak force has to be fine tuned to one part out of 10^100. Similarly, the so called cosmological constant, which drives the acceleration of the universe, has to be fine tuned to within one part out of 10^120 in order for the universe to be life- permitting. Here is a real corker: Roger Penrose of Oxford University has estimated that the initial entropy condition – the entropy level of the early universe – has to be fine tuned to one part out of 10^10^(123) – a number which is so incomprehensible that to call it astronomical would be a wild understatement.

It is not just one of these numbers that must be fine tuned but all of them. So you multiply these probabilities together until our minds are just reeling in incomprehensible numbers. Having an accuracy of even one part out of 10^60 would be like having a range the size of the entire visible universe – 20 billion light years across – and in order for life to exist, a randomly thrown dart would have to land in an area one inch square. And that is just one part in 10^60! We are talking about numbers that are just unimaginably greater than that.

These are just some of the examples of fine tuning. The examples of fine tuning are so many and so various that they are unlikely to disappear with the further advance of science. Like it or not, the fine tuning of the universe for life is just a scientific fact which is well-established.

Read more: http://www.reasonablefaith.org/defenders...z272yV1YIK

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These number/conditions are incredible!

This would be like if you were put before a firing squad of a few hundred trained marksmen and you hear them say, "Ready, Aim, Fire!"

You open your eyes and you see that all of the bullets have somehow missed you.

Would you conclude that they all missed by chance and be satisfied to leave it at that or would you conclude that they missed on purpose?

I would conclude that they missed on purpose.

Can you answer these questions:

1. You keep repeating the word "fine-tuned". Which means you know for a fact that these values are tunable. That is, they could have been anything other than what they are. Can you prove that? Can you show me that these values can be changed - thereby proving that they were result of a selection and not of a causal necessity. Because if it's the latter, the probability in all cases becomes 1 in 1.

2. Secondly, you keep repeating "life-permitting", but exactly what conditions are life permitting? Can you prove that if the constants were different, not only there won't be organic life, but no other kind of life either?

Tobie Disagrees

Nope. He just pointed out the other one. First was the misrepresentation of atheism and the second was invalid comparison to the rock scenario.

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Win the lottery once...that's fine chance. Win it again, and again, and again....I think that points to a pattern....

And since there is only one kind of life known, we've won the lottery once only.

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When Physicists say the universe is fined tuned, they don't mean God did it.

Ones who are arguing for intelligent design do.

Ones arguing for intelligent design are not physicists.