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When Faith and Science Clash
#68
RE: When Faith and Science Clash
(September 20, 2012 at 5:38 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: Let me give some examples of fine tuning because physics abounds with examples of fine tuning.

The biggest fallacy that the fine tuning argument makes is looking at the outcome and assuming it was predetermined.

Here's an example of why it fails.

When one is dealt a bridge hand of thirteen cards, the probability of being dealt that particular hand is less than 1 in 635 billion. Yet, it would be absurd for someone to be dealt a hand, examine it carefully, and exclaim, “wow, the odds against getting these exact cards are 635 billion to 1. I couldn’t possibly have been dealt this hand by chance. There must have been supernatural intervention.”

That is the fallacy of this idea. The assumption that the universe and world as it exists was a predetermined outcome. This is not the case. It is what it is because that’s the thirteen cards that were dealt. 635 billion to 1 against getting those exact cards, but 1 to 1 odds that 13 cards would be dealt and you would get something.

It's easy to imagine an ammonia-breathing intelligent being somewhere right now saying, “wow, what are the odds that this planet has just the right amount of ammonia in the atmosphere, we are just the right distance from our sun to maintain an average temperature of 180º F, the three moons provide just the right amount of tidal action, . . . My, what a finely tuned planet this is.”

http://www.epicidiot.com/evo_cre/13cards.htm

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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Messages In This Thread
When Faith and Science Clash - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 20, 2012 at 7:01 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tempus - September 20, 2012 at 7:06 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Faith No More - September 20, 2012 at 7:07 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tobie - September 20, 2012 at 7:07 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 20, 2012 at 10:54 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tea Earl Grey Hot - September 20, 2012 at 11:32 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tobie - September 20, 2012 at 12:25 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 20, 2012 at 12:42 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by IATIA - September 20, 2012 at 5:10 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 20, 2012 at 5:38 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Simon Moon - September 20, 2012 at 6:50 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 20, 2012 at 7:17 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 7:56 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Simon Moon - September 20, 2012 at 7:28 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Simon Moon - September 20, 2012 at 12:59 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by LastPoet - September 20, 2012 at 7:35 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by pocaracas - September 20, 2012 at 8:03 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2012 at 8:50 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Kayenneh - September 20, 2012 at 8:55 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Anomalocaris - September 20, 2012 at 9:05 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by FallentoReason - September 20, 2012 at 9:15 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by TaraJo - September 20, 2012 at 9:59 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by IATIA - September 20, 2012 at 10:03 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by LastPoet - September 20, 2012 at 10:05 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by FallentoReason - September 20, 2012 at 10:58 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by LastPoet - September 20, 2012 at 10:59 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Strongbad - September 20, 2012 at 11:07 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Reasonable_Jeff - September 20, 2012 at 11:16 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2012 at 11:43 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 20, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Simon Moon - September 20, 2012 at 12:36 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Darkstar - September 20, 2012 at 1:05 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Minimalist - September 20, 2012 at 1:08 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 1:13 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Minimalist - September 20, 2012 at 1:22 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2012 at 1:20 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by downbeatplumb - September 20, 2012 at 2:07 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Faith No More - September 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 20, 2012 at 7:05 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2012 at 5:41 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Kayenneh - September 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tobie - September 20, 2012 at 5:45 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tobie - September 20, 2012 at 5:48 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Haydn - September 20, 2012 at 5:50 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 5:52 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Haydn - September 20, 2012 at 6:00 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 6:07 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 6:12 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 6:19 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Reforged - September 20, 2012 at 6:02 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Haydn - September 20, 2012 at 6:23 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 6:27 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2012 at 6:28 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 6:47 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by System of Solace - September 20, 2012 at 6:49 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 6:52 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by System of Solace - September 20, 2012 at 6:56 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 6:59 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by IATIA - September 20, 2012 at 7:06 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 20, 2012 at 7:28 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 7:29 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 20, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 7:36 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Darkstar - September 20, 2012 at 8:13 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 8:56 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by System of Solace - September 20, 2012 at 6:33 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by jonb - September 20, 2012 at 6:40 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by MysticKnight - September 20, 2012 at 7:10 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 20, 2012 at 7:22 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2012 at 7:20 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Ryantology - September 20, 2012 at 7:21 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Polaris - September 20, 2012 at 9:07 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tobie - September 21, 2012 at 3:56 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Cyberman - September 21, 2012 at 6:52 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Tobie - September 21, 2012 at 7:21 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Simon Moon - September 21, 2012 at 12:22 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Ryantology - September 20, 2012 at 9:46 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Whateverist - September 20, 2012 at 9:46 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by LastPoet - September 21, 2012 at 4:07 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Cyberman - September 21, 2012 at 7:39 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Faith No More - September 21, 2012 at 8:42 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2012 at 8:42 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Faith No More - September 21, 2012 at 4:42 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 21, 2012 at 4:54 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by genkaus - September 21, 2012 at 5:06 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 21, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Faith No More - September 21, 2012 at 5:00 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Jackalope - September 21, 2012 at 5:33 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2012 at 5:51 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by ChristLives - September 21, 2012 at 6:21 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Darwinian - September 21, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by KichigaiNeko - September 22, 2012 at 9:42 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2012 at 6:27 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Anomalocaris - September 21, 2012 at 6:30 pm
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Cyberman - September 22, 2012 at 10:46 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by pocaracas - September 22, 2012 at 11:10 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Simon Moon - September 22, 2012 at 11:28 am
RE: When Faith and Science Clash - by Cyberman - September 22, 2012 at 11:32 am

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