RE: There is no god or gods!
September 28, 2012 at 4:00 pm
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2012 at 4:01 pm by Darkstar.)
(September 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm)Dranu Wrote:Can a being be infinite, even in theory? We are not even sure if the entire universe is infinite, so how could something be greater than the universe? If god is greater than the universe itself, then it would be illogical to conclude that god could come into being from nothing when the universe could not. (and if you say that he did not come into being but always existed, then why could the singularity not have always been?)(September 27, 2012 at 9:42 pm)IATIA Wrote: First you need to define your god.As said earlier, the infinite being.
Dranu Wrote:So, basically, because god is defined as infinite he is allowed to break the laws of physics and contradict himself without losing validity, and even create a paradox that isn't impossible. He can make 2+2=7 and be right. If it is beyond the scope of human understanding (or, more accurately, it is literally impossible), then it is 'the mystery of god'.Quote:It is infinite. If it is infinite, then how could there be room for anything else?You are right in concluding there can be only one. Though the argument is perhaps slightly different than you may think, you are on the right track here (it more has to do with issues of identity and distinction).
As for there being room for all that is finite (creation) refer to my first post. Something can only conflict between limitations. Since God has none (being infinite), there is no internal limit that could conflict with anything else and create a contradiction (such as a being spcio temporally limited not being able to exist in the same place at the same time as another; etc).
Though this is not a problem for Spinoza's/Einstein's God since they are pantheist (I loved it when a Catholic priest proved to him the big bang on his own physics giving some proof to western theism ), it is an issue I ought to address since I'm no pantheist.
Dranu Wrote:Because he is defined as infinite, of course he is non-falsifiable. There will always be gaps for god-of-the-gaps to hide in. Once you disprove FSM with absolute certainty, I will do so for god (becuase neither can be done).(September 27, 2012 at 9:30 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Not all, as in those things which are non-falsifiable by definition. God is non-falsifiable in the way that he has been defined, therefore the 'unknowable' god of which most theists speak cannot be disproven absolutely.Correction: IMPOSSIBLE to disprove at all before even observation (a priori). Now some things are practically non-falsifiable, but God is one of the few things I can think of that is logically non-falsifiable a priori.
Dranu Wrote:Darkstar Wrote:This is a fairly unique quality of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. (Well, it is...) Alternatively, this is a fairly common quality among the thousands of gods various religions have claimed to exist.No, I would imagine he is quite falsifiable depending on what you mean, it is just impractical for us to be able to do so with our current tech, knowledge etc.
Unless of course you mean the same thing as 'God' and are just calling him the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster'. I can call a dog a cat, but it doesn't mean the dog is a cat if I mean the dog .
Anyhow, when I have more time I will try and keep us on topic because I think you still have not actually answered my earlier question, but since I am so charitable I have responded anyhow
The person who invented the Flying Spaghetti Monster created him as a god. He is a parody of how easy it is to create a ridiculous and non-falsifiable story and claim it true, whilst revealing false secrets of the universe*. Likewise, if you say that when I say 'Flying Spagheti Monster' I mean god, then god can be anything so long as he is omnipotent. You earlier described god as 'the infinite being'. Therfore, the only quality of god is his omnipotence. Therefore, if we assume that god exists and that there can only be one, then you can you say with any confidence that the god you worship is anything like the real god, other than being omnipotent?
*Regardless of what miracles in the bible you believe in, you cannot deny (whilst remaining intelletually honest) that the earth is not flat, nor does the sun revolve around it.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.