RE: There is no god or gods!
September 29, 2012 at 12:20 am
(This post was last modified: September 29, 2012 at 12:21 am by Darkstar.)
(September 28, 2012 at 10:29 pm)Dranu Wrote: No no, God does not break the laws of physics because (essentially speaking) God subsists and enables physical reality. Sort of like how math exists (by very imperfect analogy). 2+2=4 at all places and at all time with all things, and physical reality partakes of these divine eternal laws (co-existent with whatever exists in the same 'place').
God also cannot make 2+2=7 or anything contradictory. You are right to say He is omnipotent, but omnipotence only entails the ability to do anything. A contradiction is not even a thing, it designates nothing, and is not just 'beyond' our God-given reason, but opposes it.
1. Therefore there are no laws of physics, only the illusion of them because we cannot break them.
2. God contradicts himself plenty of times in the bible, so why do you say he can't do anything contradictory?
3. Omnipotence itself is contradictory. If god cannot contradict himself, then there are things he cannot do, and he is not truly omnipotent.
Dranu Wrote:FSM=Flying Spaghetti MonsterDarkstar Wrote:There will always be gaps for god-of-the-gaps to hide in. Once you disprove FSM with absolute certainty, I will do so for god (becuase neither can be done).Again, I do not know what you mean by a FSM, but, unless its just another name you give God (in which case the argument is merely verbal), I can show you how its possibly false (unlike God).
My point is that I could invent an equally non-falsifiable god in my head right now. Likewise, what is 'another name you give god'? Does that mean all gods are just different interpretations of the real one? In that case he would contradict himself greatly. If not, then which ones are, and how can we know? How can we know that the true god has even revealed himself at all, and that he isn't the god of a religion that doesn't exist yet?
Dranu Wrote:This has nothing to do with that silly meme of 'god-of-the-gaps'. The Catholic God has never gone under a definitional shift nor minimalized in the role He plays in the universe. Modern science has also confirmed our cosmology where it used to be doubted 'scientifically' for thousands of years. Friend, please save that 'god-in-the-gaps' meme for the anti-intellectual fundamentalists. It is somewhat effective there I think (besides the unfortunate fact that they are anti-intellectual and such arguments are ineffective on them anyhow)
I suppose that is true. God is absolutely non-falsifiable as he is defined, therefore even unlimited scientific knowledge could not disprove him, therefore god-of-the-gaps is unnecessary. The one question that always ties me down is this: if the universe could not come into existence without god, and god is infinitely greater than the universe, then how could god come into existence from nothing, when the universe cannot? (If the answer is 'I don't know', then we can be excused from not knowing how the universe came to be) Likewise, the universe took 14,000,000,000+ years to reach its current state, god appeared instantaneously. If there was no beginning to time, then the universe could have existed forever. If there was, then god would have had to have formed instantaneously from nothing in order to have always been, whereas the universe would have no such time restrictions.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.