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Current time: December 17, 2025, 9:52 pm

Poll: Is there a god?
This poll is closed.
Yes
13.64%
6 13.64%
Maybe
4.55%
2 4.55%
I do not know
11.36%
5 11.36%
Maybe not
2.27%
1 2.27%
No
61.36%
27 61.36%
I do not care
6.82%
3 6.82%
Total 44 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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There is no god or gods!
#60
RE: There is no god or gods!
(September 29, 2012 at 12:20 am)Darkstar Wrote: 1. Therefore there are no laws of physics, only the illusion of them because we cannot break them.
I am not sure I understand you here. How does the fact that 2+2=4 at all places and at all times prove physics is false? Numbers are not physical things and so are beyond physics even though physical laws still apply to physical things.

Quote:2. God contradicts himself plenty of times in the bible, so why do you say he can't do anything contradictory?
I know of instances of apparent contradictions in Scripture, but no necessary ones. Certainly, I can see how you can fair mindedly call them contradictions though. Anyhow, I deny God commits contradictions by reason. I'm Catholic after all. We also believe in the holy book of nature and reason and deny Sola Scriptura as heresy. Thus I interpret scripture in light of Tradition, Magisterium, reason, and science.

Nevertheless, though perhaps an interesting criticism for certain believers of the Christian god, this is somewhat off my point. I am talking about God in the generic natural theology sense, not Christian specifically (even if that is the right interpretation Big Grin).

Quote:3. Omnipotence itself is contradictory. If god cannot contradict himself, then there are things he cannot do, and he is not truly omnipotent.
If a contradiction is not a thing (as it most certainly is not), then not being able to do it is not a thing God cannot do. Thus, not being able to do contradictions does not negate omnipotence (the ability to do anything).


Quote:I suppose that is true. God is absolutely non-falsifiable as he is defined, therefore even unlimited scientific knowledge could not disprove him, therefore god-of-the-gaps is unnecessary.
You will find some fundamentalists who will give you a falsifiable version of a god and to who this god-of-the-gaps criticism is somewhat applicable (typically the ones who think evolution and God are incompatible, etc). However, as to God of natural theology in general, you are right.

Quote:The one question that always ties me down is this: if the universe could not come into existence without god, and god is infinitely greater than the universe, then how could god come into existence from nothing, when the universe cannot?
According to what I have argued so far, some may conclude, like Spinoza, that the universe is the infinite being (though this has some logical problems). Assuming the universe is creation though, then it is finite, at least in the way of Cantor's transfinites. That is, it might be infinite in kind but not absolutely. It is lacking/limited in some ways. Thus, if we hold the principle of sufficient reason (basically the principle that reason applies to all things), we need assume a sufficient reason for it (we wouldn't if it were completely infinite). God, however, being infinite, is a sufficient explanation for Himself. Of course being infinite means being eternal, so there is no coming into existence or instantaneously appearing for Him either.

Quote:Likewise, the universe took 14,000,000,000+ years to reach its current state, god appeared instantaneously. If there was no beginning to time, then the universe could have existed forever.
Fortunately the natural sciences (in very recent years; thanks to a Catholic priest) have 'proven' to us that the universe is 14 billion+ years old, not eternal. Everything empirical points to a start point, disproving the quasi-atheistic 'atheism-of-the-gaps' theory of the static universe. As far as the cause of the universe goes, atheism-of-the-gaps can at least still seek a refuge there in the closing gaps and speculate the cause was non-theistic or try and criticize the science of the big bang (which is pretty solid by this point).
Reply



Messages In This Thread
There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 17, 2012 at 9:34 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by jonb - September 17, 2012 at 9:50 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Pokemon - September 21, 2012 at 2:25 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 23, 2012 at 12:04 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Erinome - September 21, 2012 at 2:49 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by TaraJo - September 22, 2012 at 8:43 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Ryantology - September 23, 2012 at 1:16 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 23, 2012 at 3:01 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 23, 2012 at 3:55 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 23, 2012 at 4:37 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darwinian - September 23, 2012 at 4:48 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 23, 2012 at 4:50 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 24, 2012 at 2:23 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Jackalope - September 24, 2012 at 2:33 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 24, 2012 at 3:07 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Jackalope - September 24, 2012 at 3:15 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 25, 2012 at 7:23 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 25, 2012 at 7:37 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Zen Badger - September 26, 2012 at 8:27 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Jackalope - September 23, 2012 at 4:55 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Ryantology - September 23, 2012 at 7:14 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 24, 2012 at 3:33 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 25, 2012 at 12:08 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Ben Davis - September 25, 2012 at 8:25 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 25, 2012 at 7:08 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Ben Davis - September 26, 2012 at 8:41 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by FallentoReason - September 25, 2012 at 12:37 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by will_alltogether - October 1, 2012 at 7:21 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by kılıç_mehmet - September 23, 2012 at 6:45 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Tiberius - September 24, 2012 at 12:52 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by frankiej - September 24, 2012 at 1:02 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Minimalist - September 24, 2012 at 1:03 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Nine - September 24, 2012 at 1:06 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 24, 2012 at 1:10 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Whateverist - September 24, 2012 at 3:57 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Ben Davis - September 24, 2012 at 5:04 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by MysticKnight - September 25, 2012 at 1:25 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by genkaus - September 26, 2012 at 11:37 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 25, 2012 at 8:13 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 27, 2012 at 8:04 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 27, 2012 at 8:35 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 27, 2012 at 9:12 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 27, 2012 at 9:30 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Jackalope - September 27, 2012 at 10:08 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 27, 2012 at 10:13 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 27, 2012 at 10:19 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 27, 2012 at 10:26 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Jackalope - September 27, 2012 at 10:41 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 27, 2012 at 10:55 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Jackalope - September 27, 2012 at 11:49 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 27, 2012 at 11:53 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 27, 2012 at 9:42 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 28, 2012 at 4:00 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 28, 2012 at 10:29 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 29, 2012 at 12:20 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 29, 2012 at 12:17 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by MysticKnight - September 29, 2012 at 12:28 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 29, 2012 at 2:57 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - September 30, 2012 at 12:55 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by KichigaiNeko - September 26, 2012 at 7:14 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - September 28, 2012 at 10:26 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by FallentoReason - September 30, 2012 at 12:15 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - October 1, 2012 at 6:12 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - October 1, 2012 at 6:20 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - October 1, 2012 at 6:32 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - October 1, 2012 at 6:43 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by spence96 - October 1, 2012 at 6:57 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by spence96 - October 1, 2012 at 8:32 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - October 11, 2012 at 2:34 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - September 30, 2012 at 3:36 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by spence96 - September 30, 2012 at 11:05 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - October 1, 2012 at 6:20 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by spence96 - October 1, 2012 at 12:31 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darwinian - October 1, 2012 at 6:20 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Dranu - October 1, 2012 at 6:22 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darwinian - October 1, 2012 at 6:25 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - October 1, 2012 at 6:27 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 7:54 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by will_alltogether - October 1, 2012 at 9:17 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 9:42 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by will_alltogether - October 1, 2012 at 9:51 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 11:10 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Darkstar - October 1, 2012 at 11:13 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by IATIA - October 1, 2012 at 11:34 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Ryantology - October 11, 2012 at 3:50 pm
RE: There is no god or gods! - by Edwardo Piet - November 4, 2012 at 6:09 am
RE: There is no god or gods! - by yvon111 - November 12, 2012 at 11:01 am

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