RE: There is no god or gods!
October 1, 2012 at 6:27 pm
(This post was last modified: October 1, 2012 at 6:29 pm by Darkstar.)
(October 1, 2012 at 6:22 pm)Dranu Wrote:(October 1, 2012 at 6:20 pm)Darwinian Wrote: There would also have been no time for a creator to exist so in summary, yes, it is perfectly possible and not in conflict with the laws of nature for the universe to be causeless.Few have ever argued God exists in time you know, and even if God did not cause it, reason demands a reason for its cause.
That's what I think anyway.
So either god has no cause or the universe (maybe) has no cause (doesn't have to be supernatural). You say god has no cause because he just doesn't need one. But, if someone invented him, they would definitely define him in this way so he couldn't be falsified. You basically assume that god existing for no reason (note that he's infinitely greatert than the universe) is less mysterious than the universe existing for no reason. You say that because god is infinite, he can prove himself. I have been told by another christian on this forum that god cannot make 2+2=7 because it is not a thing and he can do anything. Where do we draw the line, then? Can god create himself (don't think so)? If not, I don't see how he proves himself by definition.
(October 1, 2012 at 6:25 pm)Darwinian Wrote:(October 1, 2012 at 6:22 pm)Dranu Wrote: reason demands a reason for its cause.
Just because the human mind cannot conceive of something does not mean that the universe has to conform to that view.
Just like when humans couldn't concieve of lightning, so they incented Zeus. I see the cosmnological argument as a somewhat more intellectual version of god-of-the-gaps. If we prove that the universe could have evolved from the singularity on its own and that the singularity could be eternal, would this (effectively, not absolutely) disprove god?
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.