Aurelius seals the deal?

[Retorth]

I don't know. Atheists may want to murder, rape, and pillage but don't because they think it's not worth getting in trouble over...who knows. You could provide a list of all the things you do and your motives for doing them, your overall life goal, etc for analysis/critique.

Seems to me you question morality, yes?

All of the evidence of your good life DOES DISAPPEAR! You die, your children die, and the human race DIES. Do you believe the universe and the human race lasts forever and that the memory of you will last at all?

Overmars posted a quote by Marcus Aurelius that answers your question.

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

Why are you concerned about the lives of those who come after you? How can you live for future people - how have you determined that they are worth more than you? Shouldn't you live for you?

I believe when Demonaura refers to "people who will come after us" he is referring to our children.

Bad people aren't devout to the just gods, whilst hating themselves. Someone might be forced into that position, but it is unstable, dishonest (thus not devoted), and will simply result in their demise. Being honestly and freely devoted to the just gods equals being good.

I was under the impression there was supposed to only be one just and true god. :S

How? ...since just saying it doesn't make it so. Explain why you would be good - essentially why would you give up your own means, even your own life, for the sake of another when everyone is doomed to destruction (which is what happens according to people who could care less about the gods). In simpler terms, why would you be good for no reason? It doesn't make any sense in context of destruction. Why wouldn't you instead be rational and look after your own livelihood and survival?

That is a really grey picture you paint. "everyone is doomed to destruction" This is what happens not according to people who care less about gods, but according to your bible. I won't go on about that, however.

We are good because we choose to. Why do you need someone to tell you to be good? That's just immature. You should feel it in your heart to be as wonderful a human being as you can possibly be. This is being rational and is looking after our own livelihood and survival. To you, basing your entire being on a supernatural force in the sky is rational but that is far from rational to us. It's a matter of perspective.

We love our family and our children, we give them all we can and help them grow into beautiful human beings and as the quote above from Aurelius states, "you will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

You are just so narrow-minded in your outlook on the possibilities of a life without religion. Pardon my bluntness, but it is true you can't deny that. I mean its fine that you love your god and want to devote yourself entirely to him. It's fine if you think your life is not worth anything without your supreme being. However, it's not right to be putting other people down who do not think the same as you.

So the just gods might not mind if you, in setting your own path, railroaded and stamped out as many other people as you could - to win or be better or get ahead in life. But then how could the gods be just? Is it egotistical to have standards or is it just?

Seriously, how many gods are we talking about here? lol