Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 4, 2025, 10:50 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
#2
RE: An argument that disproves perfection possibly existing?
(October 26, 2012 at 12:11 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Something that may lead me to Atheism is the following argument:

Infinite greatness is not possible for beings that come to exist after not existing.
The greatest type of praise/value is that which is earned.
Eternal praise/value is not earned.
Therefore praise/value that is finite is greater then infinite praise that is not earned.
Since finite praise earned is greater then eternal praise not earned, there cannot possible be an infinite eternal praised being.


Counter argument:

How do you objectively know earned praise is greater then non-earned praised if there is no ultimate basis to praise?

I don't know the answer, but I feel it's intuitive the more you think about it, that earned praised is greater then non-earned praised.

Thinking http://www.webworldarticles.com/e/a/titl...ed-Praise/
I think that earned praise is greater than unearned, and you are right that it is intuitive, but it depends on what you mean by 'objectively superior'. There are studies that show that unearned praise can be detrimental, but maybe not in the way you are suggesting, in that it has less value because there is no purpose to it.

In terms of god 'earning' ultimate praise, it would depend on what you classify as earned. You make the point that if god put forth no effort to achieve omnipotence, then this is not praiseworthy. But, did he put forth effort to achieve benevolence (and is he even benevolent, as some religions suggest he is not, but you already agree with me that those particular versions of god are innacurate).

If god always existed, then he would always be eternal (as time is not defined as having a beginning, so he would have to exist for an infinite period of time to reach any definable point). If he has always been eternal, he has always been omnipotent. It can be reasonably assumed that if he is omnipotent, he is also capable of omnisence, and being omnipresent. However, does this make him perfect, or simply infinitely powerful? If absolute perfection (morals included) is a requirement for god, then he is not praiseworthy in that respect, or at least the praise given to him is somewhat less valuable in a certain sense. If benevolence is not an initial condition of god, then the responsible use of his power is praiseworthy. However, how do we know god is benevolent? We may not see him in our daily lives because he is apathtic, or he could be doing good/bad things under conver of natural events. Now, I personally consider these possibilities (apathy, good and bad) to be highly unlikely as I do not believe in god, but these three things are not technically impossible. It is simply that no emperical evidence supports them.

The bottom line: If god is inherently moral, then he is not praiseworthy in the respect you indicate. If god is fully capable of doing evil, but chooses to do good instead, then he is.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: An argument that disproves perfection possibly existing? - by Darkstar - October 26, 2012 at 12:28 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The modal ontological argument for God Disagreeable 29 2139 August 10, 2024 at 8:57 pm
Last Post: CuriosityBob
  Veridican Argument for the Existence of God The Veridican 14 2842 January 16, 2022 at 4:48 pm
Last Post: brewer
  The Argument Against God's Existence From God's Imperfect Choice Edwardo Piet 53 10648 June 4, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  The Objective Moral Values Argument AGAINST The Existence Of God Edwardo Piet 58 16473 May 2, 2018 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  Berkeley's argument for the existence of God FlatAssembler 130 18384 April 1, 2018 at 12:51 pm
Last Post: Pat Mustard
  A good argument for God's existence (long but worth it) Mystic 179 39533 October 26, 2017 at 1:51 pm
Last Post: Crossless2.0
  Non-existing objects KerimF 81 25783 June 28, 2017 at 2:34 am
Last Post: KerimF
  God sees - strongest argument for God..... Mystic 62 8542 November 3, 2016 at 12:25 pm
Last Post: Doubting Thomas
  Breaking down the "God sees argument" Mystic 64 9468 November 3, 2016 at 3:59 am
Last Post: theologian
  Shia Islamic Argument for the existence of God TheMuslim 161 25103 May 29, 2016 at 3:10 am
Last Post: quip



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)