RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 5, 2012 at 9:08 pm
(This post was last modified: November 5, 2012 at 9:15 pm by Rayaan.)
(November 5, 2012 at 6:34 pm)Undeceived Wrote: John 8:12-19 and John 8:48-59 are very clear about Jesus' diety.Here are the verses that you referring to, but I did not find anything there that fall in line with the claim that Jesus is a diety:
http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/John%208.12-19
http://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/John%208.48-59
The basic message of those verses above is that Jesus is like a "guiding light" and that Jesus tells people to "follow" him. But, when he says "follow me," that doesn't necessarily mean that he is saying that he is God. I think it's more sensible to reason that the "follow me" is telling us to follow his teachings and the words that were revealed to him, and when people follow his teachings, they are also following God's commandments.
"If you remain in me and follow my teachings, you can ask anything you want, and it will be given to you. You should produce much fruit and show that you are my followers, which brings glory to my Father. I loved you as the Father loved me. Now remain in my love. I have obeyed my Father's commands, and I remain in his love. In the same way, if you obey my commands, you will remain in my love". (John 15:7-10)
http://www.biblestudytools.com/ncv/john/...hn+15:7-17
(November 5, 2012 at 6:34 pm)Undeceived Wrote: Jesus forgives sins, accepts worship, says he has always existed, says he will judge the world at the end of time and claims to be the only way to heaven.I've heard those, but they are not sound interpretations according to my understanding.
I'll elaborate on those in a different post.
(November 5, 2012 at 6:34 pm)Undeceived Wrote: His statement "I am" in 8:59 is translated directly as Yahweh, the Hebrew name for God (in Exodus 3:14 Moses asks for God's name, God tells him I AM).Quote:
Most literally, EGO EIMI means "I am" — present tense, and that it is how it appears in most translations. However, Jesus is speaking of his existence in the past, not just the present. By using the Greek word "prin", meaning "before", Jesus places what he next states in the past tense, "before Abraham" came to be existing, and he then relates his own existence "before" Abraham’s existence. In the Koine Greek, the present tense is often used in the context of the past is often used to denote a past continuity. Many wish this to be translated as "I AM" in order to connect it with "I AM" — Ehyeh — of Exodus 3:14, or with certain scriptures in Isaiah, such as Isaiah 41:4 and Isaiah 43:10, with the thought that this phrase means without beginning or without end.* "I am" [Greek transliterated: ego eimi] however, is simply present tense, and simply states what is now, and in itself states nothing about an eternal past and future. Any thought of "uncreated" has to be imagined beyond what he stated so as to force his words into such a meaning.
Continued here: http://godandson.reslight.net/?p=1030
In (original) Greek:
http://www.studylight.org/isb/bible.cgi?...ng=3&ncc=3
(November 5, 2012 at 6:34 pm)Undeceived Wrote: In John 10:30 Jesus says "I and the Father are one." More: http://www.godandscience.org/cults/jesus.htmlSee my post above (in response to John V).