RE: The Most Explicit Verses on the Godship of Jesus
November 6, 2012 at 6:44 pm
(This post was last modified: November 7, 2012 at 4:44 pm by Rayaan.)
(November 6, 2012 at 9:28 am)John V Wrote: Whoa, hold on there cowboy. At this point I haven't argued anything.I didn't mean it that way. Sorry for not being clear enough.
Where I said this:
"If you look at some of the other verses (in the same Gospel), their context implies a different meaning of John 10:30 from what you're arguing."
you can replace it with:
"If you look at some of the other verses (in the same Gospel), their context implies a different meaning of John 10:30 from what you seem to convey."
Minor change of words, but I meant to say the same thing.
(November 6, 2012 at 9:28 am)John V Wrote: You posed your question as an innformation request, not a challenge.It was a question, but a challenge, too.
(November 6, 2012 at 9:28 am)John V Wrote: If you're arguing that the Bible doesn't portray Jesus as divine, you should have said so.I didn't say that, yes, but there's a little hint of that at the end of my OP when I said "I didn't find anything like that" (i.e. that Jesus is God) in the Bible itself.
(November 6, 2012 at 9:28 am)John V Wrote: In that case I would have started with OT prophecies of the messiah, such as:Well, those are probably just proper names that were given to Jesus, not his personal names. They don't necessarily mean that he was God himself.
Isaiah 9
6 For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
For example, in Mark 10:17-18, it says that a man came to Jesus and asked him "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." So, if Jesus rejected such a small personal praise ("good") being attributed to himself, then it's contradictory to think that he would accept all these high-praising names such as "Mighty God," "Everlasting Father," "Prince of Peace," "Immanuel," and so on as his direct, personal attributes.
Another name of Jesus was "Immanuel" (meaning "God is with us"):
Isaiah 7:14:
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
That verse says that Mary will have a son (in the biological sense) and "Immanuel" will be his name. The fact that they called Jesus "Immanuel" doesn't necessarily mean that he was God, because many others may have had that name, but are not God actually. Immanuel was just one of the many titular names of Jesus, not his personal name.
It's possible that the name "Immanuel" is to be understood in light of Acts 10:38 which says, “You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him." Therefore, if God was with Jesus per that verse, then, through Jesus, God was with his followers as well. Hence the name "Immanuel," or "God is with us."
Drich, I'll look into the verses you mentioned and then I'll tell you what I think about them. Thanks for your post.