Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: July 20, 2025, 11:24 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
A scientific reason to not believe?
#15
RE: A scientific reason to not believe?
(November 25, 2012 at 3:17 am)journeyinghowie Wrote: l) The Proof from Motion. We observe motion all around us. Whatever is in motion now was at rest until moved by something else, and that by something else, and so on. But if there were an infinite series of movers, all waiting to be moved by something else, then actual motion could never have got started, and there would be no motion now. But there is motion now. So there must be a First Mover which is itself unmoved. This First Mover we call God.
In this universe, we can observe facts. The facts only apply to this universe. Who's to say whatever was the cause for this universe didn't follow the same rules as this universe? Also, who's to say this universe ever had a causation?

If to assume what you say is true up until 'god', can you please define what a 'god' is?

Quote:2) The Proof from Efficient Cause. Everything in the world has its efficient cause--its maker--and that maker has its maker, and so on. The coffee table was made by the carpenter, the carpenter by his or her parents, and on and on. But if there were just an infinite series of such makers, the series could never have got started, and therefore be nothing now. But there is something everything there is! So there must have been a First Maker, that was not itself made, and that First Maker we call God.

This looks like argument #1 to me. See above for a refutation.

Quote:3) The Proof from Necessary vs. Possible Being. Possible, or contingent, beings are those, such as cars and trees and you and I, whose existence is not necessary. For all such beings there is a time before they come to be when they are not yet, and a time after they cease to be when they are no more. If everything were merely possible, there would have been a time, long ago, when nothing had yet come to be. Nothing comes from nothing, so in that case there would be nothing now! But there is something now-the world and everything in it-so there must be at least one necessary being. This Necessary Being we call God.
I don't even understand this, although, judging from the ending bit of the paragraph, I'd say it's borderline argument #1.

Quote:4) The Proof from Degrees of Perfection. We all evaluate things and people in terms of their being more or less perfectly true, good, noble and so on. We have certain standards of how things and people should be. But we would have no such standards unless there were some being that is perfect in every way, something that is the truest, noblest, and best. That Most Perfect Being we call God.

Everyone has different standards, though. Even if everyone had the same standard, how is that evidence for a 'god.' Also, define 'god.'

Quote:5) The Proof from Design. As we look at the world around us, and ourselves, we see ample evidence of design--the bird's wing, designed for the purpose of flight; the human ear, designed for the purpose of hearing; the natural environment, designed to support life; and on and on. If there is design, there must be a designer. That Designer we call God
The definition of design:
"Design is the creation of a plan or convention for the construction of an object or a system"
I don't see that when I look at a bird. When I look at a bird, I see evidence for a bird.

If to assume everything in existence came with a blueprint to prove it was indeed designed, I'd need a definition of the designer and then evidence to support the claim that what you described is indeed what designed these things; basically, define 'god.'
Reply



Messages In This Thread
A scientific reason to not believe? - by journeyinghowie - November 25, 2012 at 2:30 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cyberman - November 25, 2012 at 2:32 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by journeyinghowie - November 25, 2012 at 2:41 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cyberman - November 25, 2012 at 3:41 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by The realest - December 3, 2012 at 6:01 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cyberman - December 5, 2012 at 7:34 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by FallentoReason - December 4, 2012 at 9:27 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Waratah - November 25, 2012 at 2:33 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by cratehorus - November 25, 2012 at 2:36 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Annik - November 25, 2012 at 2:37 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Annik - November 25, 2012 at 2:48 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by journeyinghowie - November 25, 2012 at 3:07 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Norfolk And Chance - November 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Mister Agenda - November 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Annik - November 25, 2012 at 3:10 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by journeyinghowie - November 25, 2012 at 3:17 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Gilgamesh - November 25, 2012 at 3:58 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by genkaus - November 26, 2012 at 2:45 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Ryantology - November 25, 2012 at 3:16 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Annik - November 25, 2012 at 3:19 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by cratehorus - November 25, 2012 at 3:43 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Creed of Heresy - November 25, 2012 at 4:16 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Voltron - November 25, 2012 at 4:16 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by KichigaiNeko - November 25, 2012 at 5:15 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by downbeatplumb - November 25, 2012 at 5:37 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by KichigaiNeko - November 25, 2012 at 7:58 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Welsh cake - November 25, 2012 at 5:36 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Zen Badger - November 25, 2012 at 7:09 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by pocaracas - November 25, 2012 at 11:21 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Angrboda - November 26, 2012 at 3:26 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by pocaracas - November 26, 2012 at 5:46 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Napoléon - November 25, 2012 at 2:47 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by The Grand Nudger - November 25, 2012 at 3:53 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cato - November 25, 2012 at 5:21 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by KichigaiNeko - November 27, 2012 at 2:15 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cyberman - November 27, 2012 at 4:03 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Kirbmarc - November 27, 2012 at 4:27 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 28, 2012 at 12:24 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Gilgamesh - November 28, 2012 at 12:27 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by overlord fombax - November 28, 2012 at 4:04 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cyberman - November 28, 2012 at 3:52 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Vincenzo Vinny G. - November 30, 2012 at 12:49 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cato - November 30, 2012 at 12:55 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by ThomM - December 1, 2012 at 9:09 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Darkstar - December 4, 2012 at 5:48 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Jackalope - December 3, 2012 at 1:36 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Voltron - December 3, 2012 at 1:45 am
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Cato - December 4, 2012 at 6:17 pm
RE: A scientific reason to not believe? - by Lion IRC - December 4, 2012 at 9:32 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Fine Tuning Principle: Devastating Disproof and Scientific Refutation of Atheism. Nishant Xavier 97 14786 September 20, 2023 at 1:31 pm
Last Post: Silver
  It's Darwin Day tomorrow - logic and reason demands merriment! Duty 7 1177 February 13, 2022 at 10:21 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  Why do you not believe in the concept of a God? johndoe122931 110 14971 June 19, 2021 at 12:21 pm
Last Post: Mermaid
  "Why is it reasonable to believe in prisons, but not in the hell?" FlatAssembler 124 14256 February 19, 2021 at 12:11 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  No reason justifies disbelief. Catharsis 468 70161 March 30, 2019 at 6:57 pm
Last Post: fredd bear
  Who do not atheists believe? Interaktive 12 3338 March 25, 2019 at 10:46 am
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  Choosing to/not to Believe? Not Possible? JairCrawford 61 13244 July 1, 2018 at 11:16 pm
Last Post: EgoDeath
  What is your reason for being an atheist? dimitrios10 43 11628 June 6, 2018 at 10:47 am
Last Post: DodosAreDead
  Are there any scientific books or studies that explain what makes a person religious? WisdomOfTheTrees 13 3417 February 9, 2017 at 2:33 am
Last Post: Mirek-Polska
  Is atheism a scientific perspective? AAA 358 88359 January 27, 2017 at 7:49 pm
Last Post: brewer



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)