RE: Why should anyone even want a relationship with God?
January 17, 2013 at 2:11 pm
(This post was last modified: January 17, 2013 at 2:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
It hardly matters which direction one goes when one is trying to reach a place that is non-existent Drich.
@ FTR.
Being "wired" to do good compells you to worship? Just compels me to do good...
I think you're muddying the difference between a god that commands things -because- they are good (in which case he is middleman, and can be circumvented) and a god which commands thing that are good -because- it commands them (in which case good is arbitrary - not, in my estimation, worth seeking on those grounds).
Neither of these hypotheticals compel me to worship either god in any case. Here's the long and short of it FTR, I don't think that you and I are so entirely dissimilar (of course I don't think that Drich and I are all that different either) and so when you tell me that such and such would compel you to worship and these things seem insufficient (especially as they simply hang as assertions - no elaborative effort involved) I start to think that maybe you haven't thought it through all that well - and if you had- you might realize that you aren't giving us the whole story. Know what I mean? Imagine the single-most abhorent thing you are capable of. The divine command god could make this "good" by it's say-so. You're telling me that you would capitulate and fall to your knees? I think you've shortchanged yourself. The god that commands things -because they are good- has no insurmountable advantage over you in this regard, and I doubt that you would argue that being a middle man is, in itself, worthy of worship. In each case I have a very strong suspicion that an "or else" modifier must be added. If this modifier is required, it matters very little to me whether or not the god in question is of the divine command or the middle man type - the threat erodes all pretense of being worthy of worship. Sure, it may punish you for your rebellious nature (and to be frank, there isn't anything you can do about this whether or not it would punish you), but this makes it less worthy of your adoration - not more-so.
"Do this because I say it is good, fuck your compass, and if you don't I'll hurt you."
or
"Do this because it is good, fuck your compass, and if you don't I'll hurt you."
@ FTR.
Being "wired" to do good compells you to worship? Just compels me to do good...
I think you're muddying the difference between a god that commands things -because- they are good (in which case he is middleman, and can be circumvented) and a god which commands thing that are good -because- it commands them (in which case good is arbitrary - not, in my estimation, worth seeking on those grounds).
Neither of these hypotheticals compel me to worship either god in any case. Here's the long and short of it FTR, I don't think that you and I are so entirely dissimilar (of course I don't think that Drich and I are all that different either) and so when you tell me that such and such would compel you to worship and these things seem insufficient (especially as they simply hang as assertions - no elaborative effort involved) I start to think that maybe you haven't thought it through all that well - and if you had- you might realize that you aren't giving us the whole story. Know what I mean? Imagine the single-most abhorent thing you are capable of. The divine command god could make this "good" by it's say-so. You're telling me that you would capitulate and fall to your knees? I think you've shortchanged yourself. The god that commands things -because they are good- has no insurmountable advantage over you in this regard, and I doubt that you would argue that being a middle man is, in itself, worthy of worship. In each case I have a very strong suspicion that an "or else" modifier must be added. If this modifier is required, it matters very little to me whether or not the god in question is of the divine command or the middle man type - the threat erodes all pretense of being worthy of worship. Sure, it may punish you for your rebellious nature (and to be frank, there isn't anything you can do about this whether or not it would punish you), but this makes it less worthy of your adoration - not more-so.
"Do this because I say it is good, fuck your compass, and if you don't I'll hurt you."
or
"Do this because it is good, fuck your compass, and if you don't I'll hurt you."
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
