(January 22, 2013 at 10:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:...says the guy who just implied that I'm incapable of rational thought. Some people get really annoyed when this word is used incorrectly, but I'm fairly certain that's irony.(January 22, 2013 at 9:30 pm)Celi Wrote: If you mean a belief that good wins, always, then that's not rationally based at all
Only in your world view. In my world view is is entirely rationalised. You shouldn't judge what someone else thinks without first understanding it.
I tolerate your position. Would you tolerate mine?
Would you care to defend that claim rather than playing the "You can't say I'm wrong because religious tolerance!" card?
(January 22, 2013 at 10:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote:No, that's the basis of following your own morals (aka not being a complete selfish ass). Do you really understand what you're implying when you say that being a good person is the basis of Christianity?(January 22, 2013 at 9:30 pm)Celi Wrote: If you mean a belief that trying to be good/kind is generally best, most atheists would agree with that, as would most people in general.
And that is the basis of Christianity. You begin to understand this rational stance.
(January 22, 2013 at 10:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Where kindness ends, a belief in a good governing force takes over. Where you would have to concede that nature is neutral, a Christian makes no such concession, because of the purpose and meaning that shapes their world view.Nature, by definition, is just the way things are. It's a set of fundamental laws that everything in the universe follows, nothing more. So I suppose you could call it neutral, but really that goes without saying, because the idea that nature could have some moral stance on anything is baffling, at least to me. In any case, we're talking about nature itself. It gets by just fine without God's guiding hand. As for our species, like every other species, it exists inside this universe and so evolved to make the most of it.
(January 22, 2013 at 10:37 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't believe in carrot and stick. I have no use for afterlife, and death is death. It happens. What concerns me is now and how I get the most out of life. Given the choice of hope and no hope, I choose hope.Er, this part I think I agree with (except for possibly the last sentence, since I still don't understand what it is that you refer to by that word). I don't see how it fits into the rest of your argument, or Christianity, though.