Nice to see that the topic is another two pages of wandering in circles. The original question is answered so unless you guys really are just having fun throwing faeces at each other, I'd recommend letting it die! If you have any qualms regarding the assertions that have been made then why not create a second topic about it, for the sake of organisation and some vague semblance of order! If you anybody has forgotten the formal response written by fr0d0 (who happens to be leading the response) it is this:
And without distorting what fr0d0 has said here, I feel that the only error in this response is this. You state "God's overall plan to do something that in the minutiae will be very confusing to you" and then state "That's how we define him" along with "As we don't have the option of omniscience, this cannot be known to us" and I'd really like to ascertain what you do and do not know regarding your god's intentions and powers and how you are more 'qualified' to educate us on such a topic. I have a strong feeling that you are assuming on many parts that you share the same belief as others of your particular faith and that said belief is right. If we cannot know all things regarding god due to our lack-of omniscience, then how can you validate your statement to be true other than through your own personal experience with your god? It seems as though you are walking the fine line of asserting and assuming and not making it abundantly clear what is what.
(February 4, 2013 at 2:44 am)fr0d0 Wrote: I don't see God's omnipotence limited at all. What is seen as God unable to do something is God's overall plan to do something that in the minutiae will be very confusing to you.
As we don't have the option of omniscience, this cannot be known to us.
God is never malevolent to us. But God's benevolence doesn't involve preventing us from harm of every kind. God's benevolent plan for us is primarily that we enjoy life to the full. A life without the potential for extremes would never attain that.
Natural disaster is the mechanism by which life on earth exists. Assuming God, his greater plan is facilitated by the laws of physics. By life and death, by happiness and suffering.
Omnibenevolence isn't a characteristic of the Christian God. God is love. Love is Gods moving force. That's how we define him. Mistranslating biblical text to show the opposite it nonsensical. Why would the Jews hold that God was loving with reference to their own record that says the opposite. Someone is reading it wrong there, and I would suggest to you that it isn't them.
And without distorting what fr0d0 has said here, I feel that the only error in this response is this. You state "God's overall plan to do something that in the minutiae will be very confusing to you" and then state "That's how we define him" along with "As we don't have the option of omniscience, this cannot be known to us" and I'd really like to ascertain what you do and do not know regarding your god's intentions and powers and how you are more 'qualified' to educate us on such a topic. I have a strong feeling that you are assuming on many parts that you share the same belief as others of your particular faith and that said belief is right. If we cannot know all things regarding god due to our lack-of omniscience, then how can you validate your statement to be true other than through your own personal experience with your god? It seems as though you are walking the fine line of asserting and assuming and not making it abundantly clear what is what.
