Attributes, Probability and the God Index

[FallentoReason]

Ah, the ontological argument.. sort of.

The fallacy with that is that a concept in our head is different to an object in the real world. I can think of a stapler, but that concept in my head isn't an actual stapler (because that would hurt!). Therefore these all-powerful beings that we can imagine to exist are just concepts and in no way does that entail they actually exist.

No... it's the argument that logic itself is invalid. An omnipotent being doesn't necessarily have to be bound by logic.... but you have a bunch of nonsense there.

Did you use logic to propose logic isn't bound to the being?

The pain itself could easily be illusory. If you are capable of using your mind to create pleasure in yourself... you are also capable of using your mind to hurt you. Even your perception of pain and pleasure *itself* is all in your head. Everything might as well 'be just a concept'... but I would ask you this: how does is conceptual existence not 'actual' existence? Sounds like a NTS to me... maybe that'll talk to you better than cluing you in, you logic-impaired zealot.

What I meant by "it would be painful" is that if the concept of a stapler in my mind was literally a stapler, then I would be dead, as a stapler inside my brain wouldn't work very well for me. All I'm saying is that a concept and an object representing said concept are two different things.

What's NTS?
Concepts are abstract things. Do you have evidence to prove they exist in reality? They only exist inside the mind.

A concept in your head is all that objects in 'the real world' are.

I don't see how you can conclude that. The bus I take to uni isn't a concept. It's a solid object I can interact with.

Observe a worm... a pitiful, nonsapient being: how would they perceive the very real television in front of them? Go further, and say it was reduced in size such as to be proportional to humankind's televisions... the experience is totally different. But both experiences are real.

I don't think I'm following.. worms don't have eyes.. so they can't experience tv like we can. So what?

Observe the pitiful human, a sapient being... but it has neither been to space, nor does it appear to have the capacity to escape logic's rule. Existence is. Organization of existence into separate 'things' is the barest of observations that you do not observe the whole.

Are you the type of person that believes NASA never went to the moon?

Sorry, I'm really not following what your argument is...

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This argument was my response to John V's view that God isn't omni x3 according to the Bible, because my argument on non-belief (different thread) requires that God is at least omnipotent and omnibenevolent.

Well, I don't think he'd have to be omnibenevolent to not want us to burn. At least slightly benevolent. Not that I think the god of the bible is particularly benevolent, but apparently he can redefine that word at will.

Well, the value that is chosen for that particular attribute is meaningless, as God ceases to exist if all values are equally possible.