Why Certain Aspects of Theism Piss Me Off

[Rayaan]

You've got a point, Rayaan, but like Kichi said, I've heard it far less from atheists, who seem fascinated by the world if they're science minded. Most of the pissy ones have a problem with how humanity is fucking up the planet, not that the planet is in some way 'bad'.

Well, I understand that that's your opinion on this, but I disagree because I think that theists are equally fascinated by the world and many of them still have an appreciation and an interest for science, in spite of believing in a god. I don't feel discouraged from learning science either.

Even if theists are not as science minded as atheists - which is true for the most part, I suppose - I think that their fascination and awe of the world might just be a little bit different (but not necessarily lower) in the sense that their fascination originates from thinking about God's creations or by observing how wisely and beautifully He created them. The fascination of atheists, on the other hand, lies more on nature/reality itself, as opposed to a deity, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are more fascinated. Rather, it just means that there are different reasons for being fascinated by the world.

There is also the atheistic idea that religion just provides any stupid answers to gullible people to such an extent that it removes most of their sense of fascination and wonder about the world since everything ultimately boils down to "God" or "God did it" sort of thing, so that they don't have to think or investigate anymore. The world becomes less mysterious and less fascinating for them.

I find the opposite to be true, because my belief in God in fact brings a greater amount of mystery into my mind about the nature of reality and about God Himself with questions like what is God, why did he create this universe, why did he make it the way it is, what is his relationship with human language, why isn't he conceivable through logic, how does our self-awareness persist even after death, what is the soul, and many others which, in effect, only increase my level of fascination of reality.

It's related to their worldview in that they base the goodness of their afterlife entirely on it. I rarely if ever see this in atheistic terms.

I assumed that is what you probably meant, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying now.

My understanding of Christians and Muslims as well is that we don't think that the world itself is 'bad' somehow. It's just that the afterlife is going to be much better, in almost every aspect of the word "better." That doesn't necessarily mean that we think that the present world sucks or that we hate it. From an Islamic perspective, there are many Quranic verses that speak about the beauty of this world such as by mentioning things like the sky, stars, planets, the moon , the sun, the trees, animals, plants, mountains, etc., and it tells us to reflect on these things, a lot, and to see how they are all interconnected.

The main difference is that the beauty of this world (or so we believe) is short-lived, transient, whereas the beauty of the hereafter is eternal and immensely and indescribably greater. In the Quran, for example, the earth is metaphorically described as something that gets watered, begins to grow, and then becomes "fresh and green" (like a flower), but that it will also wither away one day along with all the beauty that it contains.

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Question: When you said that Christians base the goodness of this world entirely on the goodness of their afterlife, what did you mean by "goodness," exactly? Are you using that word mainly in an aesthetic context like you were talking about in the OP? Or does it have more to do with the goodness of life itself in the afterlife (instead of just beauty)?

Or did you mean both?