(May 17, 2013 at 3:35 am)littleendian Wrote:Then people that buy factory meat from a grocery store are excused. They didn't kill the animals that constitutes those meat products.(May 16, 2013 at 7:15 pm)Sal Wrote: But I'm also realistic. Nature is nasty. The amount of suffering of animal-on-animal behavior is just abysmal. Not to mention the very nature of some animals that have their own taxonomy: parasites. Parasites cause untold suffering.This is not a justification. Other's cruelty can never excuse our own.
(May 17, 2013 at 3:35 am)littleendian Wrote: Man is not primarily part of nature anymore, he/she is most importantly part of a culture today. This culture is subject to the rules society gives itself, it is not based on the rules of nature, a good example is rape, which is a fact of nature but outlawed by society.Animals have culture, albeit a primitive one.
(May 17, 2013 at 3:35 am)littleendian Wrote:A pipe-dream, if I ever saw one. Very unrealistic. Problem is that we cannot control how others behave, is why I think it's a pipe-dream.(May 16, 2013 at 7:15 pm)Sal Wrote: So, let's not delude ourselves, there's enough of suffering to go around - if only idiots like PETA would realize this, or do they think they can lessen suffering in how nature is?We can minimize the suffering we ourself cause, yes we can.
(May 17, 2013 at 3:35 am)littleendian Wrote:That's anthropomorphizing on a grand scale. Animals don't know they're prisoners in the same sense humans know it. Dogs, for instance, don't call us master - they only act the way they act, because of how they've been selected for in their evolution.(May 16, 2013 at 7:15 pm)Sal Wrote: I'd argue that free range animals have a better life than what occurs outside the fences with occurrence of natural predators ripping them apart.I'd rather live free and in danger than a prisoner without great hopes or fears, my destiny set from the word go, to be killed in prime of life (old animals don't taste well).
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman