How to shut up people who are against abortion

[Tiberius]

Isn't it his baby too?

Does that apply to rapists?

What about men who fail to pay child support?

Or what about men who simply fuck anything that moves and don't even know their names?

Grand pronouncements are tempting but the devil is always in the details.

None of that had anything to do with my point, which was that viewing abortion as a "women only" issue denies fathers the rights to decisions about their children. Yes, the woman is carrying the baby / foetus / embryo / whatever you want to call it, but why doesn't the father have a say in the matter if he helped create it?

People who support abortion like to think that it's such a simple issue, but when you get right down to the core of it, it's really not. On the one hand, you have the reasoning that a woman should be able to control her own body; on the other, you have the fact that abortion is killing a human, whether you like it or not (or whether you accept it's a person or not). You also have the fact that if the sex was consensual, the father helped to create something which is rightfully his responsibility too.

Well... that's a loaded question, isn't it?

No. No it's not at all...either the child / baby / foetus / embryo inside the mother is the father's as much as the mothers, and therefore the father should have some say in the decision, or it's not, and the father shouldn't have any say. I'd say it's a quite simple yes/no question.

I don't understand the use of the term "baby" in this context. A fetus is not yet a baby.

Replace "baby" with whatever you want to call the organism currently residing inside the mother. I honestly don't give a fuck about semantics at this point.

And, frankly, no.

Great show of logical reasoning there. Accuse me of asking a loaded question...answer it anyway. *claps*

No one should have any say over anyone else's choices for their own bodies unless the owner of said body requests it, which is what I did. If men were able to get pregnant, I'd have the same opinion.

I can think of numerous examples in society where we do allow people to make choices for other people's bodies. We do it for mentally handicapped people, we do it for loved ones who are not capable of making choices themselves, and heck, we do it for criminals who break the law.