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Mind/matter duality
#6
RE: Mind/matter duality
(May 28, 2013 at 8:12 pm)Sal Wrote:
(May 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Why is there subjective awareness, in a universe which is supposedly composed only of physical interactions? Why shouldn't even human beings be able to take in data, process it, and output a behavior, without ever actually experiencing this process?
I'm a physical monist (as such a naturalist and reductionist) and I think what we have here is simply matter projecting & "thinking" it's special. The radicalization of this viewpoint on the other scale is of dualism and is called solipsism. Solipsism, to me, is a rejection of the possible existence of other minds other than your own.

For me to say that (my) consciousness is the only one there is, is to deny that there are other consciousnesses out there besides my own. This poses an obvious problem: If my consciousness is the only one there is, then I'm totally alone in the world vis à vis consciousness. However, as a physical monist I can see that there are other agents in the world, they seem to act on their own in such a way that they can interact with my own consciousness, so I make a small leap of faith and say that I'm not alone in this and conclude as an effect of this, that matter that make up my mind & the particular interactions of the brain, are merely matter interactions.
For me, solipsism fails as soon as someone tries to explain it. If someone thinks he's alone, then who is he explaining to? However, there are other options that still allow the existence of others. An idealistic universe, for example, could include all the laws of physics, could allow for multiple agents, and could explain why some things don't seem to play by the rules.


Quote:If (my) consciousness is more besides matter interactions, then why is my consciousness limited to my brain?
I think saying they are separate would require a total disavowal of any scientific understanding at all. However, it still doesn't explain why a brain doesn't just do its thing, without the existence of an associated mind.

Quote:Dualists have assumed so much on this question (e.g. the "immaterial"), whereas I simply says that it's reducible to what we can find out to be of reality through the sciences. Everything of the mind is reducible to reality.
Actually, I think you could argue the opposite point just as well. Our reality is our experience; anything we say about the source of our experiences (for example, objects reflecting light), requires the assumption of an extra layer of reality: experience + objective reality independent of that experience. We are convinced that this idea represents a degree of reality, and take this as an unassailable fact. However, as good an assumption it is, physicalism still represents the extra idea.

When the idea of physicalism is applied to the mind, we come up against the brute fact of the existence of mind. No matter how much we say mind is just brain chemistry, and that it's all physics, the fact is that you can't poke a dream pony with a real stick.

Quote:I think dualists have big problem explaining other consciousnesses apart from their own because of the solipsism viewpoint.

This is in no way exhaustive of my viewpoint, just the enumeration of it.
I'm not sure why solipsism is important to duality. I cannot verify the sentience of anyone else in either a physical monism OR a dualism, and in both cases, I would have to assume that other minds exist in order to enjoy interpersonal communication without feeling crazy.
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Messages In This Thread
Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 28, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 28, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Sal - May 28, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 28, 2013 at 11:05 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by littleendian - May 29, 2013 at 4:17 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Ryantology - May 29, 2013 at 5:33 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Terr - May 28, 2013 at 9:08 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 9:13 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 5:58 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - May 29, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - May 29, 2013 at 7:40 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 10:24 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - May 30, 2013 at 2:09 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 30, 2013 at 6:35 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 29, 2013 at 6:46 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 6:56 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 29, 2013 at 10:35 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 11:13 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 29, 2013 at 11:30 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 30, 2013 at 10:59 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 30, 2013 at 11:40 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 30, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 31, 2013 at 12:01 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Whateverist - May 30, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 29, 2013 at 9:22 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 30, 2013 at 9:38 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 31, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 8:34 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 31, 2013 at 8:56 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 9:09 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 10:11 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 11:11 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 6:16 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 6:27 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by The Grand Nudger - May 30, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 30, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - May 31, 2013 at 1:30 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 3:53 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - May 31, 2013 at 1:11 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by pocaracas - May 31, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 31, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Zarith - May 31, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 1, 2013 at 1:30 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 1, 2013 at 1:43 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 1, 2013 at 2:00 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 5, 2013 at 2:57 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 5, 2013 at 8:30 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 6, 2013 at 12:56 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 6, 2013 at 5:00 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 9, 2013 at 2:33 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 9, 2013 at 6:02 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Sal - June 1, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 1, 2013 at 8:38 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Zarith - June 1, 2013 at 5:29 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 3, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 3, 2013 at 8:55 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 3, 2013 at 10:37 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 3, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Sal - June 3, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Zarith - June 3, 2013 at 9:57 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 4, 2013 at 5:18 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by TheBigOhMan - June 4, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 5, 2013 at 8:47 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - June 6, 2013 at 3:25 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 6, 2013 at 6:10 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 6, 2013 at 5:04 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 7, 2013 at 8:26 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 7, 2013 at 10:08 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by The Grand Nudger - June 4, 2013 at 7:58 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 4, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by TheBigOhMan - June 4, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 4, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by TheBigOhMan - June 5, 2013 at 12:23 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Walking Void - June 9, 2013 at 11:46 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 9, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Walking Void - June 9, 2013 at 6:37 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm

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