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Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am by Pizza.)
Dualists want to reduces personal identity down to immaterial thinking thing but I don't buy it. If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity. If you cut away all the physical, with Descartes and friends arguments for dualism, what is left? Thinking thing... Where's the beef?
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 6:12 am
Dissatisfaction with the cogs and gears we see in biology combined with a desperate need to feel special? I doubt that dualist's give much thought to the "immaterial thinking thing" of parrots.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 9:17 am
(January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am)Pizza Wrote: Dualists want to reduces personal identity down to immaterial thinking thing but I don't buy it. If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity. If you cut away all the physical, with Descartes and friends arguments for dualism, what is left? Thinking thing... Where's the beef?
Suppose we had the technology to take the 'immaterial thinking thing' part of you (I don't think it's 'immaterial' at all, but there we are) and put it into a machine that bore a starling resemblance to a pizza oven. All your emotions, thoughts, inner conflicts, inner dialogue, memories, etc are now encased in a thousand-kilo machine made of steel, plastic and ceramic.
Would you cease to be you?
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 9:54 am
Not to the police.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 10:07 am
There are many kinds of dualists.
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 11:16 am
(January 30, 2016 at 9:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Suppose we had the technology to take the 'immaterial thinking thing' part of you (I don't think it's 'immaterial' at all, but there we are) and put it into a machine that bore a starling resemblance to a pizza oven. All your emotions, thoughts, inner conflicts, inner dialogue, memories, etc are now encased in a thousand-kilo machine made of steel, plastic and ceramic.
Would you cease to be you?
Boru
The big difference is that you would then have to debate the qualia of baking dough instead of the experience of seeing red.
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 12:57 pm
(January 30, 2016 at 9:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am)Pizza Wrote: Dualists want to reduces personal identity down to immaterial thinking thing but I don't buy it. If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity. If you cut away all the physical, with Descartes and friends arguments for dualism, what is left? Thinking thing... Where's the beef?
Suppose we had the technology to take the 'immaterial thinking thing' part of you (I don't think it's 'immaterial' at all, but there we are) and put it into a machine that bore a starling resemblance to a pizza oven. All your emotions, thoughts, inner conflicts, inner dialogue, memories, etc are now encased in a thousand-kilo machine made of steel, plastic and ceramic.
Would you cease to be you?
Boru
That would depend on what one believes constitutes "you".
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 2:21 pm
(January 30, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Irrational Wrote: (January 30, 2016 at 9:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: Suppose we had the technology to take the 'immaterial thinking thing' part of you (I don't think it's 'immaterial' at all, but there we are) and put it into a machine that bore a starling resemblance to a pizza oven. All your emotions, thoughts, inner conflicts, inner dialogue, memories, etc are now encased in a thousand-kilo machine made of steel, plastic and ceramic.
Would you cease to be you?
Boru
That would depend on what one believes constitutes "you".
Which is what I'm trying to find out by asking the question.
Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 2:25 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2016 at 2:29 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
An excellent relevant piece about what makes you, you. Pretty long, but interesting if you have the time.
Quote:When you say the word “me,” you probably feel pretty clear about what that means. It’s one of the things you’re clearest on in the whole world—something you’ve understood since you were a year old. You might be working on the question, “Who am I?” but what you’re figuring out is the who am part of the question—the I part is obvious. It’s just you. Easy.
But when you stop and actually think about it for a minute—about what “me” really boils down to at its core—things start to get pretty weird. Let’s give it a try:
http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/12/what-makes-you-you.html
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: Is personal identity really just mind?
January 30, 2016 at 4:35 pm
(This post was last modified: January 30, 2016 at 4:36 pm by Pizza.)
(January 30, 2016 at 9:17 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: (January 30, 2016 at 4:57 am)Pizza Wrote: Dualists want to reduces personal identity down to immaterial thinking thing but I don't buy it. If you ask me to define what it means to be me, I'd end up "pointing" to more than thoughts, but my face, my voice, the way I walk, my actions, my quirks, and my humanity. If you cut away all the physical, with Descartes and friends arguments for dualism, what is left? Thinking thing... Where's the beef?
Suppose we had the technology to take the 'immaterial thinking thing' part of you (I don't think it's 'immaterial' at all, but there we are) and put it into a machine that bore a starling resemblance to a pizza oven. All your emotions, thoughts, inner conflicts, inner dialogue, memories, etc are now encased in a thousand-kilo machine made of steel, plastic and ceramic.
Would you cease to be you?
Boru If you cut my hand off and glue it to a tree, would I to still be me? Yes. Thinking is only one part of "being me" like my hand.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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