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Mind/matter duality
#48
RE: Mind/matter duality
(May 31, 2013 at 10:11 am)bennyboy Wrote: …brain function viewed from the outside is not the same as experience…1) the things you perceive represent an objective reality

First, objective reality is not the same thing as physical reality. What you call objective is a common reference for all subjective experiences. Macbeth is a fictional character. He can serve as a common reference point and we can have knowledge and make true statements about Macbeth. But Macbeth is non-physical even if he is still a part of objective reality.

Secondly, you cannot have knowledge apart from a subject that knows. Every observation includes both your own sense data about objective reality and information about you as a subject. Thus, you cannot truly divide the world into objective knowledge (that is somehow real) and subjective knowledge (that is suspect and unreal). One entails the other.

Finally, doubt is the just the unwillingness to commit to the veracity of some idea. So no matter how compelling the evidence, or complete your knowledge, you can always doubt. Doubting is a choice and not always a rational one. It is possible that you could be a brain in a vat or a butterfly dreaming he is a man or the only truly sentient being in a world of zombies. These kinds of doubts are not falsifiable. This makes them unscientific. Trying to gain knowledge of experience itself without reference to experience is a fool’s errand.

(May 31, 2013 at 1:11 pm)whatever76 Wrote: ...Our ability to improve our survival by changing the environment is easily proven objectively (the reason I suggested for why we are self-aware) and our world is non-linear, therefore an entity that relies upon linear mechanical processes would be at a disadvantage.
Evolution did it! You really haven't proven anything. You begged the question. Most of the very human things you do, you often do without conscious awareness. You drive your car while thinking about something else. Your unconscious mind works on problems while you sleep. You can daydream in the shower. And sometime you can even have a complete conversation while your mind is somewhere else. If we can do these very human things without consciousness then what makes consciousness an evolutionary advantage.
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Messages In This Thread
Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 28, 2013 at 5:44 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 28, 2013 at 7:49 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Sal - May 28, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 28, 2013 at 11:05 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by littleendian - May 29, 2013 at 4:17 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Ryantology - May 29, 2013 at 5:33 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Terr - May 28, 2013 at 9:08 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 9:13 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 3:46 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 5:58 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - May 29, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 7:12 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - May 29, 2013 at 7:40 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 10:24 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - May 30, 2013 at 2:09 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 30, 2013 at 6:35 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 29, 2013 at 6:46 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 6:56 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 29, 2013 at 10:35 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 29, 2013 at 11:13 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 29, 2013 at 11:30 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Baalzebutt - May 29, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 30, 2013 at 10:59 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 30, 2013 at 11:40 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 30, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Cato - May 31, 2013 at 12:01 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Whateverist - May 30, 2013 at 12:45 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 29, 2013 at 9:22 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 30, 2013 at 9:38 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 6:27 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 31, 2013 at 8:10 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 8:34 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 31, 2013 at 8:56 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 9:09 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 10:11 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 11:11 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 12:16 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 12:49 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 6:16 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - May 31, 2013 at 6:27 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by The Grand Nudger - May 30, 2013 at 11:02 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 30, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - May 31, 2013 at 1:30 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - May 31, 2013 at 3:53 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - May 31, 2013 at 1:11 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by pocaracas - May 31, 2013 at 10:39 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Neo-Scholastic - May 31, 2013 at 6:01 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Zarith - May 31, 2013 at 7:15 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 1, 2013 at 1:30 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 1, 2013 at 1:43 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 1, 2013 at 2:00 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 5, 2013 at 2:57 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 5, 2013 at 8:30 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 6, 2013 at 12:56 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 6, 2013 at 5:00 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by whatever76 - June 9, 2013 at 2:33 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 9, 2013 at 6:02 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Sal - June 1, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 1, 2013 at 8:38 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Zarith - June 1, 2013 at 5:29 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 3, 2013 at 8:27 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 3, 2013 at 8:55 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 3, 2013 at 10:37 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 3, 2013 at 10:50 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Sal - June 3, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Zarith - June 3, 2013 at 9:57 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 4, 2013 at 5:18 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by TheBigOhMan - June 4, 2013 at 7:29 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 5, 2013 at 8:47 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Angrboda - June 6, 2013 at 3:25 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 6, 2013 at 6:10 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 6, 2013 at 5:04 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 7, 2013 at 8:26 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 7, 2013 at 10:08 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by little_monkey - June 8, 2013 at 7:43 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by The Grand Nudger - June 4, 2013 at 7:58 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 4, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by TheBigOhMan - June 4, 2013 at 8:14 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 4, 2013 at 11:20 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by TheBigOhMan - June 5, 2013 at 12:23 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Walking Void - June 9, 2013 at 11:46 am
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 9, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by Walking Void - June 9, 2013 at 6:37 pm
RE: Mind/matter duality - by bennyboy - June 10, 2013 at 1:25 pm

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