RE: Pineapples disprove Big Bang
June 13, 2013 at 12:52 am
(This post was last modified: June 13, 2013 at 1:06 am by Pandas United.)
(June 12, 2013 at 6:41 pm)Ryantology Wrote: All you've done is arbitrarily given your chosen creator attributes specifically designed with the sole purpose of enabling you to make an exception to the rule for your chosen creator. It's still special pleading.
No, special pleading would be if we redefined God's nature to fit the cosmological arguments. Instead, God being an uncaused, necessary and eternal being has been established since the Old Testament writings. It just so happens science has caught up and realized the need for that type of being.
(June 12, 2013 at 6:45 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: From what I can understand of the universe, it is also considered eternal. Why then, is it so hard for theists to accept that there is no creator to the universe, claiming that something had to have created it? If theists can believe that God is eternal and without a creator, then the theists should be able to easily accept that the universe is eternal and without a creator.
No, i'm sorry but you are plainly wrong about the universe. What about the borde guth vilenkin theorem? Theory of General Relativity? Second law of thermodynamics? Big Bang theory? These all point to an initial cosmological singularity, before which literally nothing exists. Models of the universe that try to avoid an initial singularity like the oscillating model, steady state models, vacuum fluctuation models, chaotic inflationary models and quantum gravity models have been properly refuted. So no, the universe is not eternal.
Quote:Theists cannot logically claim that God is eternal and without a creator while claiming that the universe needs to have a creator.
Why? We know the universe is contingent, hence needing some sort of creator. We also know just about every theistic God throughout history has been portrayed as uncaused and eternal.
(June 12, 2013 at 7:54 pm)cato123 Wrote: Your argument requires validation of two premises:
1. How do you know the God of the Bible isn't a contingent being?
2. How do you know God is eternal?
An eternal being would be non-contingent would it not? So I think these questions blend.
If God is a maximally great being, which is the common definition of God, that entitles the trait of necessity and eternity. A contingent being would not be as maximally great as a non-contingent being. Hence, God's non-contingency.
Not to mention the several mentions to God's eternal attribute in the Bible-
Deuteronomy 33:27
Psalm 90:1-4
Ephesians 3:10-11
Revelation 1:8
1 Timothy 1:17
Isaiah 57:15
I'm sure there are more, but you get the point.
All generalizations are false.
