(June 13, 2013 at 12:52 am)Pandas United Wrote: No, special pleading would be if we redefined God's nature to fit the cosmological arguments. Instead, God being an uncaused, necessary and eternal being has been established since the Old Testament writings. It just so happens science has caught up and realized the need for that type of being.
Oh, it's still special pleading, you've just employed some linguistic tricks to swerve around approaching the plea directly. Since you haven't justified or demonstrated the eternal or contingent natures of god beyond simply quoting scripture (which is, in itself, circular reasoning) you're still employing special pleading.
Also, science makes no suggestions as to a god. That's... that's you just making shit up.
Quote:No, i'm sorry but you are plainly wrong about the universe. What about the borde guth vilenkin theorem? Theory of General Relativity? Second law of thermodynamics? Big Bang theory? These all point to an initial cosmological singularity, before which literally nothing exists. Models of the universe that try to avoid an initial singularity like the oscillating model, steady state models, vacuum fluctuation models, chaotic inflationary models and quantum gravity models have been properly refuted. So no, the universe is not eternal.
The universe as it is now is not eternal, but since we can't measure anything beyond the singularity, we can't say for sure what lies beyond. But even if we were to accept that there was nothing beyond and something caused the universe to exist, you haven't gone even one inch toward demonstrating that that cause is a being, let alone a conscious one, let alone a god, let alone your god.
Quote:Why? We know the universe is contingent, hence needing some sort of creator. We also know just about every theistic God throughout history has been portrayed as uncaused and eternal.
Asserting the former point baselessly doesn't make it true. And retrofitting the latter to match with what we now know about the universe isn't actually providing evidence, it's just showing off how general the writing of the scriptures are, and how willing theists are to bend their minds to justify their faith
Quote:If God is a maximally great being, which is the common definition of God, that entitles the trait of necessity and eternity. A contingent being would not be as maximally great as a non-contingent being. Hence, God's non-contingency.
Would it? You haven't justified that.
Quote:Not to mention the several mentions to God's eternal attribute in the Bible-
"We know that god is eternal because it says so in the bible! And we know the bible accurately reflects the universe at large because the god who wrote it is perfect and eternal!"
Wow.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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