Miracles and Anti-supernaturalism

[BettyG]

I think you are making a religion out of science. Science can only tell us about physical things. It is limited in its ability to tell us about truth. It cannot be used to explore metaphysical things. Only reason, logic and intuition are appropriate tools for metaphysical topics.

We can only perceive physical things, though. If it's non-physical then we can't say it exists at all. So hey, if you want your god to be completely inaccessible and beyond everything, then cool; I have no reason to believe he exists at all, neither do you, and your entire claim falls apart. The only thing we could really say is that, since your "reason, logic and intuition" have led you to believe in an imaginary friend that nobody can see or hear, your ability to be rational is suspect.

However, if you're claiming, as you were in the OP, that god causes things to happen in the world as miracles, then congrats, because you've made a claim that's testable by science, and hence falsifiable. Good show.

So, which is it? Is your god distant and ineffective in the world, and therefore not rationally justifiable? Or does he actually do things here, in which case he's potentially falsifiable, and so far falsified?

I disagree that "We can only perceive physical things," Love, faith, time, mathematics are real, but not physical.
God is not inaccessible. We have access through prayer. Faith is a relationship with an loving, all powerful, merciful God, the nth degree of perfection. That is the God I believe in.

I do not follow your saying God is falsifiable. You can know God through reason and logic. Thomas Aquinas gave five demonstrations in favor of the existence of God. Faith is leap, but not an irrational leap. http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/5ways.html

---

merriam-webster.com Definition of SACRIFICE
1: an act of offering to a deity something precious; especially : the killing of a victim on an altar
2: something offered in sacrifice
3a : destruction or surrender of something for the sake of something else
b : something given up or lost <the sacrifices made by parents>

1: Jesus offered Himself to the Father.

1: *Jesus offered Himself to the Father a.k.a. Himself

2: Jesus offered Himself.

2: *Jesus offered Himself [to Himself]

3 He offered Himself for the forgiveness of sins.

3: *He offered Himself [to Himself] for the forgiveness of sins [of which He "invented"]

4: He suffered the injustice of a shameful death, though He was innocent.

Innocent or guilty, it doesn't even matter. The penalty wasn't effective because he came back to life.

Can you see how senseless this is yet? Here's an overview of what's actually happening:

OT god: "humanity needs to live up to the commandments"
*intermission: events take place*
NT god: "humanity needs to accept my forgiveness"

What's the nature of this "intermission" stage? Well, since it's God fooling around with himself, his thought process presumably went something like this:

OT god: "I've set up the system by which humanity ought to live and how they will be judged. Maybe it's time for a change though? I know, I'll perform some trivial events of which I know will play out in my favour (because I'm god, duh). This way, I can convince myself that my self-"sacrifice" is enough to make myself change my mind on how I will run things!"

There is nothing that is being "conquered" (a word Christians love in their circles) or nothing that is being "defeated". There's no sacrifice or no gift that I can accept, because no transaction was made, no money deposited elsewhere at the expense of someone, nothing lost or given up willingly. It's simply an entity fooling around with itself. The entire thing reduces to a god that is the same yesterday, today and forever paradoxically changing its mind. It's not a sacrifice, it's a change of mind dressed up as a sacrifice. Preach this philosophically redundant message if you want, but what is there to receive? Absolutely nothing.The whole concept is simply nauseating to think about and hardly the stuff of a rational omnimax entity. End of.

Jesus offered Himself to the Father; the second person of the Trinity to the first person of the Trinity.

"forgiveness of sins [of which He "invented"]?" Huh? Since Jesus is God, He has the power to forgive sins. God is a person. We offend Him by our sins. We need forgiveness.

By Jesus' death, He totally offered Himself to the Father perpetually, He held nothing back. His innocence is important, because, though He was like us in all things but sin, He did not deserve to be killed. If He had been a sinner, He would have been in as much need of forgiveness as we are.


As far as *intermission: events take place,* God had been preparing His people by gradually revealing Himself to mankind. When He thought we were ready, He gave a clear, definitive revelation of truth found in the Gospels. It was a fulfillment of the OT. Before He died, He established His Church to pass on the traditions He had taught and to be the mediator of grace between God and mankind.

Again, sacrifice means "offering." It is His intention of totally giving himself to the Father. I unite myself with His offering as an act of worship.

You have a lot to gain through faith; for example, forgiveness and integrity, guidance for living and hope.