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Obama called war criminal & hypocrite of the century in Irish Parlament
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RE: Obama called war criminal & hypocrite of the century in Irish Parlament
(June 23, 2013 at 6:23 am)Tiberius Wrote:
(June 22, 2013 at 11:29 pm)popeyespappy Wrote: What illegal wiretapping programs?
Ben Swann did a nice report on it: http://benswann.com/nsas-criminal-activity/

The Verizon data is not really an issue anymore. That was the tip of the iceberg. The fact that the NSA have backdoor access (allegedly) to a number of computer systems run by Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, etc. is the illegal bit. Those companies have denied such access; but they are required not to disclose access by law.

Alleged backdoor access and the companies have denied granting such access. I think it is important to note in this case that the companies have denied it and not just refused to comment on it. The later being more likely if indeed they had granted such access.

Quote:It's also the fact that a government like the one running the US is supposed to be bound by a constitution. They can't just enact laws that say "we can do this now; it's legal". That's why you'll find plenty of these articles online: NSA surveillance may be legal — but it’s unconstitutional.

Article 1 section 1 of the US Constitution reads, “All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.” In other words the Constitution grants the power to write laws to congress.

Article 1 section 8 clause 1 reads, “The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States” So congress has the power, indeed an obligation, to provide for common defense and general welfare of the citizens of the US.

Article 1, section 8, clause 18 of the United States Constitution is known as the Necessary and Proper Clause. It reads, "The Congress shall have Power - To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof." This particular clause has long been controversial as many thought it could be interpreted to give the government nearly unlimited power.

Madison defended the clause in the Federalist Papers when he wrote, "No axiom is more clearly established in law or in reason than wherever the end is required, the means are authorized; wherever a general power to do a thing is given, every particular power for doing it is included." Madison would soon regret writing those words as it wasn't long before Hamilton, who was initially opposed to the clause, used the clause and Madison's defense of it to justify the government's power to establish a national bank. Something that Madison opposed. Clause 18 gives congress a very broad power to act.

Article 2 of the Constitution grants executive power to the office of the President. Executive power includes the responsibility for executing the law. The NSA falls under the executive branch.

Article 3 section 1 vests the judicial powers of the government in the courts. Section 2 defines those powers. It reads, “The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State,--between Citizens of different States,--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.”

Finally the Fourth Amendment offers protection from unreasonable search and seizure. It reads, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

So the Constitution says congress has the power to write laws. They are obligated to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the people and were given broad powers to do so. Congress used the powers granted to them to produce FISA. It was written with the common defense and general welfare in mind. FISA requires warrants before obtaining the information of US citizens, i.e. The People. As such it does not in and of itself conflict with the Fourth Amendment.

FISA is a tool used by the executive branch to fulfill the obligations levied on them by the Constitution. The NSA is using it to do exactly that. If one believes the stories that the metadata obtained from various businesses has been instrumental in thwarting 50 terrorists attacks.

The courts have the power under the Constitution to issue warrants and interpret laws. This includes deciding if laws conflict with other laws Including the Constitution. If there is a failure with the way the government has handled this situation this is where it is. The courts have had a couple of opportunities to examine the constitutionality of FISA already. To date they have not ruled the law unconstitutional. I believe this is correct. There is nothing wrong with the law itself.

The problem here, if there is one, is that the law was applied ultra vires by the courts when they issued such a broad warrant. It is beyond the authority of the law to allow for such broad reaching search and seizure. It conflicts with the fourth amendment which takes president. Unfortunately under our Constitution the only entity with the authority to decide if the courts have acted outside the authority granted to them under the law are the courts themselves. And the courts have an abysmal record of policing themselves.
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RE: Obama called war criminal & hypocrite of the century in Irish Parlament - by popeyespappy - June 23, 2013 at 6:32 pm

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