[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
[quote=Rhizomorph]Back when I was in school I thought I was too smart for it and would have opted out if I could have so the fact that school was mandatory saved me from myself.[/quote]
Attending school was mandatory; doing well in the tests and actually learning stuff wasn't. You *chose* to do that, and however much you think it helps your argument, I put to you that your adolescent self knew how important a good education was despite your claim. I don't know what you were like back then, but I thought similar. However despite me hating school, I knew that an education was important, so I stuck with it.
[/quote]
The main thing I think about was how I avoided math back in school due to "math anxiety" brought about by my father's(a math wiz) showing off while trying to help me with math. The math that I was "forced" to learn has helped me out tremendously as well as much of the social studies, geography, and a whole host of crap I never thought would be important but HAS provided me with some common background that has helped me connect with other human beings. Then again, I probably would have just shorn up my knowledge with Google searchs. I have had to rely on Google searchs often on these forums.
[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
As I've argued, it depends on the person. For me, I would have preferred to attend a school that focussed on my strengths. This is the problem with a mandatory education; the only plausible way of doing it is with public school, and public school is useless for a few reasons:
1) The intelligent children are held back as the rest of the class "catches up".
2) The less intelligent children find themselves less interested in various parts of their education, and this lack of interest leads to more of (1).
3) Every child is taught the same stuff, regardless of their abilities. You learn math, english, french, history, geography and aren't able to do anything about it till much later.
Watch this very interesting TED talk on how school kills creativity if you want to know more: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ken_ro...ivity.html
A private system would see the smarter kids in a classroom with other smarter kids (or indeed, in 1 on 1 tuition), the less intelligent kids being taught basics and finding out where their true skills lie. Finally, all students are treated as individuals rather than a pack, and they are taught according to their abilities, rather than some government doctrine.
[/quote]
These are all great points that I agree with and school used to bore me to tears while I waited for everyone else to catch up. I was 99th percentile in all the placement tests (except math which I was 15th because I didn't even try) which amazed all the "smart" kids. I was an D+ student so they thought I was a dumby. I was just unorganized and had a burning head full of thoughts that didn't center around the five bits of homework I was supposed to do.
[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
If a family is too poor to afford education but wants their child to learn, there is no reason why private charity could not provide the funds, or the classes for the less fortunate. As I have argued before, with less taxes and a free market, people have more money to spend on charitable organisations (and more incentive to do so). Libertarianism shouldn't be seen as a complete scrapping of government programs, but a relocation of them from the public to the private sector.
[quote]
This totally answers my concerns but I lack the faith in humanity that you seem to have. I guess that when people have more rights and freedom with their money it would be an easy sell to get them to expend some of their energy to help other people.
[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
Scenario for you. Parents A & B have a child C. Child C doesn't like his parents that much, as they don't give him sweets that often. Man across the street D promises child C lots of sweets, and child C decides to move in with man D because of this.[/quote]
Lol at using sweeties to steal a child from their parents!
So, I convinced for the most part,
Rhizo
[quote=Rhizomorph]Back when I was in school I thought I was too smart for it and would have opted out if I could have so the fact that school was mandatory saved me from myself.[/quote]
Attending school was mandatory; doing well in the tests and actually learning stuff wasn't. You *chose* to do that, and however much you think it helps your argument, I put to you that your adolescent self knew how important a good education was despite your claim. I don't know what you were like back then, but I thought similar. However despite me hating school, I knew that an education was important, so I stuck with it.
[/quote]
The main thing I think about was how I avoided math back in school due to "math anxiety" brought about by my father's(a math wiz) showing off while trying to help me with math. The math that I was "forced" to learn has helped me out tremendously as well as much of the social studies, geography, and a whole host of crap I never thought would be important but HAS provided me with some common background that has helped me connect with other human beings. Then again, I probably would have just shorn up my knowledge with Google searchs. I have had to rely on Google searchs often on these forums.
[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
As I've argued, it depends on the person. For me, I would have preferred to attend a school that focussed on my strengths. This is the problem with a mandatory education; the only plausible way of doing it is with public school, and public school is useless for a few reasons:
1) The intelligent children are held back as the rest of the class "catches up".
2) The less intelligent children find themselves less interested in various parts of their education, and this lack of interest leads to more of (1).
3) Every child is taught the same stuff, regardless of their abilities. You learn math, english, french, history, geography and aren't able to do anything about it till much later.
Watch this very interesting TED talk on how school kills creativity if you want to know more: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ken_ro...ivity.html
A private system would see the smarter kids in a classroom with other smarter kids (or indeed, in 1 on 1 tuition), the less intelligent kids being taught basics and finding out where their true skills lie. Finally, all students are treated as individuals rather than a pack, and they are taught according to their abilities, rather than some government doctrine.
[/quote]
These are all great points that I agree with and school used to bore me to tears while I waited for everyone else to catch up. I was 99th percentile in all the placement tests (except math which I was 15th because I didn't even try) which amazed all the "smart" kids. I was an D+ student so they thought I was a dumby. I was just unorganized and had a burning head full of thoughts that didn't center around the five bits of homework I was supposed to do.
[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
If a family is too poor to afford education but wants their child to learn, there is no reason why private charity could not provide the funds, or the classes for the less fortunate. As I have argued before, with less taxes and a free market, people have more money to spend on charitable organisations (and more incentive to do so). Libertarianism shouldn't be seen as a complete scrapping of government programs, but a relocation of them from the public to the private sector.
[quote]
This totally answers my concerns but I lack the faith in humanity that you seem to have. I guess that when people have more rights and freedom with their money it would be an easy sell to get them to expend some of their energy to help other people.
[quote='Tiberius' pid='48272' dateline='1262565951']
Scenario for you. Parents A & B have a child C. Child C doesn't like his parents that much, as they don't give him sweets that often. Man across the street D promises child C lots of sweets, and child C decides to move in with man D because of this.[/quote]
Lol at using sweeties to steal a child from their parents!
So, I convinced for the most part,
Rhizo
