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A new understanding to an old premise
#24
RE: A new understanding to an old premise
(July 25, 2013 at 1:32 am)Esquilax Wrote: And god wasn't aware- indeed, had planned via placing an unnecessary tree in the garden to tempt them- that this was going to happen?
If God wasn't aware then why plant the tree, that offers choice? If the tree repersents unknown choice then why include this variable? Why not stick with absolutes?

Quote:Does anything happen that's not in accordance with god's will?
Why would it be 'God's will' to hand craft 100 trillion indivisuals when he can make them self replicating?

Quote:Why have I been made blind to begin with?
Because you couldn't make an honest choice if you have been given over to see what your not ready to see.

Quote:I didn't start out blind, I was blindfolded and then asked to make a choice that I could only make by seeing, that affects my whole eternity. This is not a fair, just, or rational system.
How do you know how you started out?

Quote:And what's wrong about being informed before having to make this choice?
Nothing, in fact He commands that you educate yourself or at least ask for help.

Quote:Why does god hate people having good information before choosing things?
Because like in life (apart from God) ignorance is apart of choice.

Quote:Why add in the obfuscation, though? It's exactly what I said: we don't all have the full information that is required, yet we're all expected to make the choice.
Because with unearned full knoweledge you would simply default to whatever benfits you most.

Quote:And we've already discussed why this A/S/K thing is entirely irrational.
Maybe that is the point. Maybe A/S/King is supposed to be counter intuitive, that way whatever you find, can be attributed to God and not to some logical rational.

Quote:I guarantee you that all of those tyrants were of the position that their judgments were just and accurate too.
Do you not even see your own bias here? I asked to look at a Judge who can not only know absolutly everything you ACTUALLY and truthfully did, but can accuratly know your inner thoughts, reasons and dialog. This is the judge I asked you to look at. Not your tyrant version who 'feels' justified.

Your trying to compare apples and oranges, and serve with a side of red herring.Big Grin

Quote:Why would god not give us all the knowledge at the outset so we can choose correctly?
God gives in small easy to understand 'bites.' If we take in what has been given we will be given more. If we do nothing with or can't understand what He has started us with then we will not be given more.

We do the same thing when educating our kids. We don't start out 6 year olds with a surgeon's study load, even if that kid will eventually be a surgeon. He starts out by trying to color between the lines, and cutting art projects out of construction paper. We wouldn't start a 6 year old out with cutting a heart out of a medical cadaver and diesecting it.

Quote:Because that's the implication; you believe that heaven is the correct choice, hell is the incorrect one, and that god would deliberately obfuscate himself behind this A/S/K paywall so that people that he apparently loves can make the wrong choice, without ever knowing that's what they're doing.
Ah, that's the problem your having! Understand Heaven is not the correct choice for everyone. This world this life has been given to us to descern whether or not heaven (and eternal service to God) is indeed the correct choice for us. If you can not stand God (or what little you know of Him in this life) How can you say you will be willing to love and serve for eternity?

Quote:How can you square this with the idea of just judgments?
Really simply, Heaven is not for everyone, and God will not drag you into Heaven and force you to serve Him.

Quote:So then knowledge of heaven wouldn't do anything to influence our ability to choose unduly, and yet it's still kept from us. Gotcha.
What you can't seem to get your mind around is that Heaven or even knoweledge of Heaven/Hell will not or does not always have to be unknowable.
If you want to be Educated you must A/S/K for the knoweledge. If you are in ignorance, it is because you choose to be ignorant. It's like a kid who skips school every chance he gets. At the end of his 12 years of grade school do you think he will be ready for life or to further his education? No, of course not, but who's fault is it that this kid skipped school? Who made that decision everyday? He chooses to be ignorant, because he refuses to goto school and learn what is being taught. In turn if you choose not to A/S/K then you like this kid choose to be ignorant of what God has to teach you. Which in of itself (for you) is the right choice.

Quote:Which is an irrational presupposition from the outset. Seriously, knowledge only influences one to have a higher chance of making a correct decision; what does god have against people making correct decisions?
Again what is a 'correct desision?'
Heaven is not for everyone, so whatever you choose will be right for you. Have you not heard MisoTheist say: "It is better to reign in Hell than to be a slave in Heaven?"

This is the choice you are looking at, not all are willing to serve and love God for eternity.

Quote:Meaning god wants people to go to hell if they won't play his game.
Yes. Because this 'game' is about your eternal placement.

Quote:Gotcha. God wants people to suffer, so he places them in a situation where the maximum number of people will.
Sometimes love demands that the hard hearted child suffers. The story of "the prodigal son" comes to mind.
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Messages In This Thread
A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 24, 2013 at 1:57 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 24, 2013 at 2:33 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Esquilax - July 24, 2013 at 11:18 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 25, 2013 at 12:30 am
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Esquilax - July 25, 2013 at 1:32 am
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 25, 2013 at 9:06 am
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Esquilax - July 25, 2013 at 9:54 am
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 25, 2013 at 11:19 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Tiberius - July 24, 2013 at 2:13 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Tonus - July 24, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Rahul - July 24, 2013 at 2:40 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Angrboda - July 24, 2013 at 3:22 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Tonus - July 24, 2013 at 4:38 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 24, 2013 at 11:00 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 24, 2013 at 11:41 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 25, 2013 at 9:42 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 27, 2013 at 12:25 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Rayaan - July 24, 2013 at 11:57 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 25, 2013 at 9:23 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Rahul - July 25, 2013 at 4:23 pm
RE: A new understanding to an old premise - by Drich - July 26, 2013 at 12:51 pm

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