Capitalism: The Foundation of Human Life and Morality

[genkaus]

If I asked you, what seperates human behaviour from the behaviour of animals what would you say?

The capacity to reason - which seems missing in you.

Probably thinking, language, negotiation, something like that?

These would be its consequences.

Well indeed, yes. Negotiation and language is the litmus paper test between human and non human. Unlike other primitive species, when we want something from another, we will usually negotiate, trade or convince someone to do it, non violently, non coercively. This saves both parties from injury, and also both parties win, rather than one killing or injuring the other and taking the other's food or whatever.

If I grow oranges, and you grow apples, by us trading, we now get to eat both oranges and apples, so we both benefit from the trade. Whereas if one were to forcefully take the other's produce, only one of us would benefit.

So tell me, who's going to stop me from taking your oranges without giving you the apples?

The only alternative to free market capitalism is coercion, stealing and aggression.

Nope, there are many other alternatives - such as welfare capitalism, state capitalism all the way down to free-market socialism.

Of course, humans can be our predators. Not everyone wants to peacefully trade and negotiate.

And that's why we need government.

These primitive people are incapable of trade and negotiation and will threat, extort, steal your resources. They are devoid of empathy, most of them are in what are called governments- were groups of people are not bound by the laws of the non aggression principle that we follow.

Nope. The government is bound by the same laws of non-aggression. Atleast in capitalist societies.

It's no secret the most violent, corrupt and repugnant of people are against free trade. These people are your predators, these people are those who will take your resources and put you in a cage if you disagree with what they think, and they will say you are a bad person if you do not like it. To support governments is to spit on yourself and wipe the boots of your oppressor. Free market capitalism is freedom, and inevitably, it will prevail.

Given that the government is the only thing standing between me and the people who'd "take my resources and put me in a cage if I disagree with what they think, and say I am a bad person if I do not like it" - I think I'll keep on supporting the government.

---

From your posts that I've read, you strike me as very preachy yet short of any practical alternative to government. Your brand of capitalism would concentrate wealth and power to an even greater degree than what we have now. If it ever comes to pass, expect the rich to be violently overthrown.

On the contrary, his brand of capitalism wouldn't remain capitalism for long.

Capitalism is nothing more than a necessary evil, its not an end in and of itself.

Justification for this would be?

---

Most people seem to live best and prosper best under systems where a free market is tempered by a limited socialism. Most developed nations have controls in place to at least try to keep shoddy goods, unsafe foods and meds, and dishonest workmanship out of the marketplace. Under your totally free market approach, I would have no recourse if (for example) my new roof fell in on me a week after construction.

You seem to have some strange ideas about how capitalism would work. Not even under complete laissez-faire capitalism would people be able to flood the market with shoddy goods, unsafe food and meds and dishonest workmanship. Government is necessary here to keep the market free from theft and fraud - otherwise it wouldn't be a free-market - and the examples listed above would be considered fraud. Under the free-market approach (not Koolay's, but one that makes sense), would be using your medical insurance, your property insurance and/or taking the builder to court.

---

I've got two problems with this. It's not built on people, its built on money.

It is built on individuals. Specifically, it is built on individual rights.

Indeed, this in itself presents a lot of problems. Capitalism is an international form of thought, similar to communism, the only difference is where their conclusions lie about how much the government will interfere into the flow of the money.

And how is this a problem, exactly?

My second problem is, it has no moral ideology behind it other than the factor of self-interest.

Self-interest is the moral ideology behind it - in combination with individual rights.

On the other hand, truely moral ideologies are built upon the stones of self-sacrifice and a genuine care for public good.

Ha. Bullshit.

Capitalism on the other hand simply assumes that things will be great if everyone acted in their self-interests. Though we know from life that interests of different people often clash and produce chaos.

Except, the clash of interests doesn't necessarily produce chaos. The government is there with the specific purpose of resolving those differences.