RE: Miracles and Anti-supernaturalism
August 1, 2013 at 1:38 pm
(This post was last modified: August 1, 2013 at 1:45 pm by Undeceived.)
(August 1, 2013 at 4:20 am)Esquilax Wrote:(August 1, 2013 at 3:43 am)Undeceived Wrote: Step two. Picture the thing/event/force that is the catalyst for our universe.
Universe as it currently is. Nobody has provided a reason to discount an eternal universe yet.
But can you imagine such a universe? It would have to be a universe that changes, yet does not decay or lose positive energy. No one has discounted it, but then no one has discounted flying unicorns either.
(August 1, 2013 at 4:20 am)Esquilax Wrote:Quote:What caused it? Another thing/event/force. And so on into infinity. Every thing/event/force is changing, causing the next. Now, if we obey our inclinations and find where infinity yields to a beginning, we come to a point where there was no change.
Why are we discounting plain old infinity?
Why hold to a theory that can never be explained, when another answer lies before you? If we are intelligent beings, is it so hard to accept that there might be an intelligent being outside our universe, in the "eternal universe," unrestricted by our laws?
Do you believe that answers must begin and end with science? Why not reason past our observational limitations? Because if there is even a possibility of a God who wishes to communicate with us, wouldn't we be idiots not to try?
(August 1, 2013 at 4:20 am)Esquilax Wrote: Oh, and once again, even granting the premises of your argument, "personal cause," doesn't equal "your god." It doesn't even equal "purposeful creation." Maybe this first cause just sneezed, and bam, universe?
Can a changeless being accidentally cause change? While you think about that, let's say "No" so we can move on with the argument. If this being purposely creates something, would it not be perfect in its/his sight? If you had the power to create the very laws of a new universe, would you not make it exactly as you wish it to be? Why build anything you would be unsatisfied with? And if this being is satisfied with our universe, it/he pays great attention to it, and to us. In five billion years, our universe will be dead. Would you complete a work of art to see it destroyed? This is the anti-Deist argument. A God creates a perfect world and withdraws his support to watch it die... Can you think of anything less fulfilling?
I'm sure the image of the kid and the anthill is appealing right now. But the kid grows up, and realizes he would much rather be needed by his family than destroy insects who don't even understand.
