RE: Miracles and Anti-supernaturalism
August 2, 2013 at 4:25 am
(This post was last modified: August 2, 2013 at 4:36 am by Undeceived.)
(August 2, 2013 at 2:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: And that's leaving off a really important point; you're talking about induction there, and there's a reason that science generally doesn't trust induction. It can lead you wrong a lot. I remind you, there was a time when "realizing certain truths" included that the Earth looked flat, and that led people to the conclusion that it was. Induction and inference are great heuristics that guide us through life pretty well on the whole, but they do come up with false conclusions when applied to larger scale notions, because it is a process that developed through evolution; it's helpful for personal issues, but once we get to the scale of, say, landmasses and planets and universes, it's not equipped to deal with that.
Science is not fond of induction. But scientists are not going to let the absence of deduction prohibit them from making conclusions. Say that I am looking for a purple swan. I have searched the world over for a purple swan, and have yet to find one. Deductively, my experiment will lie incomplete. Inductively, I conclude that in all likelihood, purple swans do not exist. In the same way, we inductively say that all actions have causes, because we have yet to find otherwise. If we rule out induction, the jury is out and we cannot even discuss cause and effect. But that would be ludicrous. Even scientific LAWS are not 100% verified, because we have not tested them in every part of the universe—say, next to black holes or between dimensions. This is why induction is even more crucial when discussing “larger scale notions.” There is simply not enough data. It’s interesting for you to be so critical of induction, because induction is the only reasoning you have for concluding there is no God. Incomplete deduction = induction. They are flip sides of the same coin. And I just defended induction for you. You’re welcome.
(August 2, 2013 at 2:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: But only if he produces good things within you, right? It doesn't count if the spirit of god produces... say, the Westboro Baptist church?
We know the Spirit of God by its fruit. Any love, peace, faithfulness, ect. anywhere at all is a result of God. If there is bigotry in the Westboro Baptist church, it came from men's hearts. (I address love more thoroughly below.)
(August 2, 2013 at 2:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: Why is infinity impossible?
Infinity is not impossible. Just know that if you are willing to accept it is an answer, you are no less radical than if you accept God as an answer.
(August 2, 2013 at 2:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: Not if he's just doing it for a food source. You haven't discounted that, you just dismissed it. That's not an argument.
If God expels his own energy into the universe, how can he gain anything from feeding on it?
(August 2, 2013 at 2:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: Or, those could be emergent properties of conscious entities with free will.
Love is about thinking outside yourself. God thinks outside of himself first by creating us. We respond to his example by loving others. Without God, there is no reason for your free will to choose love. You are interested in self-preservation. You owe nobody nothing. But I’ll let you confirm this. Give me a logical reason to love that doesn’t in any way benefit the person loving. [I’ll give you a few seconds.] Ok, the wording in that request was bias. The word “logical” always entails the individual. To love selflessly, one must be illogical. Would you, Esquilax, freely act illogically? Your hypothetical creator made you in such a way that you act for self-preservation above all else. If love does not serve you, it is not within your free will. Therefore, it must come from God.
(August 2, 2013 at 2:40 am)Esquilax Wrote: What externally verifiable information did you use? If there isn't any, how can any of us be rationally justified in believing you?
One may see the effects of the wind, but not the wind. All the unanswered questions in the world come together in the shape of God, who answers every one with organized precision.