The Quran - A Miracle

[pocaracas]

I'm not going to comment on the wall of text you pasted onto here after this reply... sorry for that, it's just... too much of arabic and translations that need to be re-done... it all sounds too much of a stretch, just for an idea of an expanding... heaven? realm? world?

Apart from what's already been told...
How did Muslims interpret these passages before the 20th century?

A brilliant question.

The hallmark of a real thinker!

(lamūsi’ūna) What does it mean?
لموسعون (lamūsi’ūna) contains the emphatic prefix lām. The prefixed particle lām is usually translated as "surely" or "indeed" and is used to add emphasis. So the word in question really is موسعون (mūsi’ūna).

Whenever I see such words as "truly", "verily", "surely".... I think someone is trying hard to make me accept something just because that someone says so.... and that's no way to convince me of anything.
Actually, that's the express way to prevent me from becoming convinced.
So, one negative point there, and a red flag raised.

Now the “ūna” or “oona” in the Arabic language represents a plural. The plural aspect is to denote the majesty and power of god. So the plurality is not in question. What is in question is the word موسع (mūsi)

موسع (mūsi). So what does this mean? Well موسع (mūsi) is one who is engaged in the act of أوسع (Awsa'). So what does أوسع(Awsa') mean?

The classical dictionary Lisan Al-Arab (13th century) says the following:



In the explanation of the word it is interesting to note that the author actually quotes the verse in question in his explanation. In the section highlighted the author states that the form 2 verb (Red Line) has the same meaning as the verb used in the verse (Blue Line)- to expand something.

Ok, apart from a lot of word translating details which don't matter to me... something is being expanded.
What could it be?...

In short the author states that the verb وسع (to expand something) has the same meaning as the verb أوسع.

So from Lisan Al-Arab we have come to learn that the verb أوسع (Awsa') means to expand. And موسع (mūsi) is the one who is engaged in أوسع (Awsa') – The Expander.
The one who engages in expanding.

Ok, someone expands whatever it is that that person expands...
Still nothing on what is being expanded...

Now let us look at some Classical Commentaries of the Quran to see if they support the translation of “the expanding Universe”.

Tafsir Al-Zamakhshari (Died in the 11 Century A.D)



In the commentary of this verse the Scholar gives the following three meanings for the word موسعون (mūsi’ūna):

The Encomposer of the Heavens (Physical and Knowledge)
The Provider (from the Heavens)
The Expander

Still going on about someone expanding... well, now you mention heavens.
Heaven, as in the realm of souls?
So, that would be the metaphysical place outside of our Universe, right?
That one can expand, contract, or do whatever anyone likes...

Tafsir Muqatel ibn Solaiman (767 A.D)

means: we are able to expand it as we want.

تفسير مقاتل بن سليمان/ مقاتل بن سليمان (ت 150 هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } [آية: 47] يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد

We can expand the heaven as we want.... sounds about right.... for it is a mythical place.

Tafsir Al Tabarani (970 A.D)

means :we expand the heaven in every direction.

Still the same sort of thing.

تفسير التفسير الكبير / للإمام الطبراني (ت 360 ـ)

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ }؛ في السَّماء على الأرضِ في كلِّ جهاتٍ

Tafsir Bahr Alolum (985 A.D)

means: we are able to expand it as we will.

Still the same, we can expand the mythical place as we want.

(فسير بحر العلوم/ السمرقندي

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد

Tafsir Alnukat Waloyon (1058 A.D)

means : we are able to make the heaven expanding more that it is already expanded.

We, who??
Oh, mankind... the more souls, the larger it must be, I guess.

تفسير النكت والعيون/ الماوردي (ت 450 ه)
الثاني: لموسعون السماء، قاله ابن زيد.

الثالث: لقادرون على الاتساع بأكثر من اتساع السماء.


Tafsir Al-Baidawi (Died 1286)

وَٱلسَّمَاءَ بَنَيْنَـٰهَا بِأَيْدٍ, بقوة. { وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لقادرون من الوسع بمعنى الطاقة والموسع القادر على الإنفاق. أو { لَمُوسِعُونَ } السماء أو ما بينها وبين الأرض أو الرزق

The translation of the part highlighted in blue reads,

"{lamūsi’ūna } means expanding the sky (heavens) or what is between it and the earth or the (expanding of) sustenance."

One single word means all that? awesome language!
Is it sky or heavens, or what's between the earth and the sky, or what's between the earth and the heaven...
or is it sustenance?

What is the context of that word?

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...&UserProfile=0

Tafsir alfayruz abadi (1414 A.D)

means : we are expanding it as we will.

Back on expanding something as humans want.

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لها ما نشاء

تفسير القرآن/ الفيروز آبادي (ت817

Tafsir Alqasemy (1913 A.D)

means: we are able to expand it, more than it is already expanded.

Like making pizza?

تفسير محاسن التأويل / محمد جمال الدين القاسمي (ت 1332هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } أي: لقادرون على الإيساع، كما أوسعنا بناءها

And many more.

Part of the miraculous nature of the Quran is that uses word(s) that have more than one meaning and all these meanings are intended. So in conclusion after looking at classical commentaries three meanings are given for the word موسعون (mūsi’ūna):

1. To encompass the heavens (Physically, Knowledge, Authority). This means that god encompasses it with his power and that he knows everything through his knowledge and has authority over it.
2. To provide for his creation. One who provides for his creation from the heavens. So physically, like the rain that comes down from the heavens. Or spiritually.
3. To physically expand. Meaning to continuously expand something or to make something vaster.


In summary Classical Linguists and Commentators of the Quran have understood for this verse to refer to the expanding of the Heavens. Tafsirs from the 8th century up to the 21st century have understood موسعون (mūsi’ūna) to mean expander or expanding.

Well, thank you for all that.
I see that classically, muslims have interpreted that it is the heavens that are expanding.... and are expanded by any person, as they see fit.
And the heavens are the mythological places where the dead souls reside, right?

How anyone leaps from that to "Universe"... is a bit beyond me... maybe it's in that long wall of text... maybe you could omit the arabic text, because no one cares about that.

Now ask yourself: if this god is so perfect, why does it impart knowledge in a specific language which was previously invented by humans?
And a very complex language, where a single word or sound can have tens of meanings... and you need to discern the correct meaning from context...
If the word has 2, maybe 3 meanings, then ok.... that can be done, provided the meaning are sufficiently disparate that you can't mistake one for the other.... but this arabic you're trying to show us... damn... one word, tons of meanings, all somewhat similar.
Too many ambiguities... not the best of languages to impart any kind of knowledge, if you ask me...