RE: No verifiable evidence is the Christian position
August 13, 2013 at 8:15 pm
(This post was last modified: August 13, 2013 at 8:22 pm by FallentoReason.)
I'm coming late to the party (as usual.. because everyone posts while I'm asleep :'( ) but I have a question for you fr0ds:
I saw that you responded to Fidel about miracles saying that all supernatural occurrences happen naturally, and thus are indistinguishable from events that *aren't* miracles (paraphrasing). If that's the case, then the entire Bible begs the question. Let me explain using one example:
Jesus turning water to wine was a miracle that happened in a completely natural way. If so, please explain how we can turn water to wine. What is the process in which this is done? There's another process that humanity has been aware of for millenia that involves grapes, but not water on its own. As far as we know, water stays as water.
Either, Jesus didn't turn water to wine *or* there's a process for turning water to wine which humanity isn't aware of.
What's more sensible to believe?
Hopefully, you'll notice that on the flipside of your controversial claim about miracles there's the self-refuting nature of the claim that'll come bite you on the ass; if miracles can be explained, then it's *not* a miracle -by definition-. Turning water to wine isn't a miracle because you claim there's an explanation for it (which humanity surprisingly hasn't stumbled upon this entire time) which means it could happen every day, all year 'round, and not just *once* by a supernatural entity.
On another point, how do we know when something natural is actually a miracle? Is warm air from my heater a miraculous event? There was cold air and within a split second it accelerates and circulates my room as warm air.
What you have here is a claim that requires even more faith than believing in "traditional" miracles. But this isn't surprising if you've been in the apologetics business for that long
What I love about your OP is the irony. You've essentially attempted to turn the atheist's request of "explain yourself" into a redundant request by simply saying "can't". In other words you've claimed that the intersection of God and supernatural miracles is an empty set, but in doing so, you've created a set which annhialates your goal: the intersection between God and *explainable natural miracles*.
So how does one turn water to wine exactly?
I saw that you responded to Fidel about miracles saying that all supernatural occurrences happen naturally, and thus are indistinguishable from events that *aren't* miracles (paraphrasing). If that's the case, then the entire Bible begs the question. Let me explain using one example:
Jesus turning water to wine was a miracle that happened in a completely natural way. If so, please explain how we can turn water to wine. What is the process in which this is done? There's another process that humanity has been aware of for millenia that involves grapes, but not water on its own. As far as we know, water stays as water.
Either, Jesus didn't turn water to wine *or* there's a process for turning water to wine which humanity isn't aware of.
What's more sensible to believe?
Hopefully, you'll notice that on the flipside of your controversial claim about miracles there's the self-refuting nature of the claim that'll come bite you on the ass; if miracles can be explained, then it's *not* a miracle -by definition-. Turning water to wine isn't a miracle because you claim there's an explanation for it (which humanity surprisingly hasn't stumbled upon this entire time) which means it could happen every day, all year 'round, and not just *once* by a supernatural entity.
On another point, how do we know when something natural is actually a miracle? Is warm air from my heater a miraculous event? There was cold air and within a split second it accelerates and circulates my room as warm air.
What you have here is a claim that requires even more faith than believing in "traditional" miracles. But this isn't surprising if you've been in the apologetics business for that long
What I love about your OP is the irony. You've essentially attempted to turn the atheist's request of "explain yourself" into a redundant request by simply saying "can't". In other words you've claimed that the intersection of God and supernatural miracles is an empty set, but in doing so, you've created a set which annhialates your goal: the intersection between God and *explainable natural miracles*.
So how does one turn water to wine exactly?
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it" ~ Aristotle
