(August 23, 2013 at 7:50 am)Tonus Wrote: What I am asking is what would have been the consequences if Jesus, as god himself or his son, had not successfully completed his mission? In essence I am wondering if it was possible for him to fail. Was the whole thing just a sham? A display put on for the dubious 'benefit' of mankind? Drich seems to lean that way with his initial post, then backed out a bit by admitting that he believes that the physical sacrifice was necessary.
God sent His Son to redeem all of mankind, Jesus as God came of His own choice, laying down all His powers and His heavenly position to be a man able to be tempted and tested. Was He vulnerable to be tempted into sin, could be. I believe He was no more vulnerable to failure than a perfect lamb born and used for a sacrifice. The lamb was born perfectly fit and flawless to be acceptable as a sacrifice, Christ is compared to that lamb because He was born as the perfect man, as one who couldn't fail, the perfect sacrifice. So perfect was He as a sacrifice He put an end to all sacrifice. I do not know if this makes sense to you or not, but Christ as a man was spiritually perfect for sacrifice as the lamb that was born physically perfect for sacrifice, the lamb had no blemish and Christ had no sin, both were born to this. The lamb couldn't fail and neither could Christ.
Quote:I don't see where god needed any sort of ritual in order to forgive sin. He is not limited from taking any action he pleases. In the second chapter of the gospel of Mark, Jesus forgives a man his sins based on the man's faith and not on any actions taken by the man, or on his behalf. When the pharisees are outraged by this, Jesus cures the man of paralysis as a way of showing that he has the authority to forgive sin without any action on the part of the sinner.
You're wrong about the paralytic, it was not his faith that caused Jesus to forgive his sin, it was the faith of the four men who let the paralytic down through the roof. Jesus did heal the paralytic to show the pharisees that His authority and His power came from the Father, they knew only God could perform this miracle. Jesus did forgive the paralytic his sin and it was done on behalf of others, just as the Father forgives our sin on behalf of Jesus. As the man did nothing for His forgiveness, we do nothing for ours, Christ did it all. We are forgiven by promise through grace.
Quote:Therefore, taking on a human form in order to provide a sacrifice was either a monumental risk, or none at all. What if Jesus had dropped to his knees and worshiped Satan, as the Devil requested? Would god have died? Would the universe have blinked out of existence? Would he have simply wiped the slate clean and moved on? Or was it all for show, because it was effectively impossible for him to fail?
There was no risk, however it was not for show, it was necessary to show how much God loves us. Christ also came to teach the new covenant, to say that Jesus was here for show, would be comparable to saying a teacher is before a class just for show.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.