RE: Genocide in the Old Testament
September 19, 2013 at 8:51 am
(This post was last modified: September 19, 2013 at 9:12 am by John V.)
(September 18, 2013 at 5:14 pm)max-greece Wrote: Really???? Reread my post. I disagreed that wrath, vengeance, impulsiveness - all except maliciousness - are imperfections. So, providing verses in which god is wrathful or vengeful have no effect on my position.
Exodus 20:1-26
And God spoke all these words, saying, “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. “You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, ...
Which ones would that one cover - I guess Jealous as its how God describes himself, we've already agreed malicious I suppose:
Romans 12:19
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
Looks like we got vengeful and wrath nailed too (from the NT - who would have thought it?)
Exodus 20:3-17
“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. ..."
So vain is God we aren't even allowed to say his name casually.....(note - not confusing the use of vain in the sentence - God is showing his vanity).
Genesis 19:
23 The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. 25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. 26 But Lot's wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
How about giving me wrath and impulsive on this one. Wrath on both Sodom and Lots wife - impulsive on the punishment for her.
2 references to God's wrath - could have had many, many, many more as I am sure you know.
Want to reconsider the ones you are prepared to accept or are you happy to contradict God's own words in the Bible?
(September 18, 2013 at 6:57 pm)Ryantology Wrote: I altered it because the original point 3 doesn't apply to non-psychopaths. As I'm not a psychopath, I have no use for yours.It's not mine. It was put forth by one of your fellow atheists. Apparently you think of them as psychopaths.
(September 19, 2013 at 1:36 am)max-greece Wrote: Just so as not to lose track lets summarize a bit. Feel free to query the summation if you must:IMO the list function makes responding a hassle. Just my .02.
Quote:We have defined God as the "perfect being."I disagree. It should be:
- The Bible claims that god is perfect. If this were not so, it wouldn't matter if you could identify imperfections.
Quote:- We have agreed that we cannot agree what defines perfection.No, we agree that we don't agree what defines perfection. We theoretically could agree.
Quote:We have therefore shifted our focus to identifying imperfectionsI don't see the necessity of this statement. We can't identify imperfections without a definition of perfection. It's not really a shift of focus.
Quote:We have taken a series of imperfections from a Christian list (the seven deadly sins) to ensure agreement.No, you have asserted that we should use the seven deadly sins. I have not agreed that those are applicable to God. My position is that we should go to the Biblical claims of God's perfection and see what they are. Unfortunately for you, those claims are tautological: his ways are perfect.
Quote:We have applied these to God, using the Bible as our source.By simply saying that God is not bound by the rules he gives to man.
How can we not, therefore, conclude that God is not the perfect being?
