Morality in Nature

[bennyboy]

I've course I do. I'm not a determinist, or a physical monist. I believe in actual mind and actual free will.

And why do you think that determinists and physical monists don't believe in single entities or actual minds or actual free-will?

Because nobody can be free of deterministic influences, which necessarily means they cannot have done other than they have done. If you cannot do other than you have done, you didn't have free will.

Yes, because determinism has wiggle-room, so that the murder itself isn't proof enough that it had to happen. So where does this wiggle-room come from? Space pixies?

Okay, so if you blow a CPU, and the computer doesn't function, you'd say, "Goddamned computer doesn't work" and throw out the whole thing, right? Because that's what punishing an individual is-- the entirety of the individual didn't cause a murder.

Except for the fact that the computer is not an agent so the concept of punishment does not apply here.

It's your analogy, not mine. But I think it accurately represents your view-- the brain is a machine which takes input, processes it, and outputs behaviors. Is this not your view?

What matters isn't whether the self exists. What matters is whether it is a byproduct of deterministic processes. If it is, then the apparent agency of the self is irrelevant-- it is a single experience of multiple functions, none of which the self has control over.

The term "byproduct" implies that there is another primary product. Which is not my view.

The self is a product of deterministic processes. Period. The part that the self plays in that deterministic process is one of agency and control - which is why its existence and function are very much relevant.

This is inaccurate. In your view, the self is one link in a causal chain starting with events external to a body, and ending with the body acting in some way on its environment. Saying it's an agent is like saying the transmission of a car is an agent in converting foot presses on the gas pedal into acceleration of the car. Calling part of that process "self" doesn't change the fact that it's simply a machine for translating controlling inputs to mechanical outputs.