If you want to know what kind of evidence you need to present, you need only read your Bible:
1. Yahweh could come down to earth and make a public speech.
...or Yahweh could speak to us face to face.
It's important to remember that Yahweh, your god, only later became this distant, enigmatic force in the universe. In the early books of the Bible, he was a "hands on" deity complete with an anthropomorphic incarnation. He commonly spoke to various prophets and interacted with them as a character in the story, frequently without the need for pyrotechnic effects like a burning bush.
Even in the New Testament, Yahweh wasn't shy about speaking directly to the people as a booming voice from Heaven.
So how come Yahweh has become so shy today?
2. If the big guy can't make it, he can send one of his angels.
One of them could tell us "he is risen" as easily as they told Mary.
Or perhaps perform some other duty like a jailbreak or a public assassination:
But hey, if none of the Heavenly Host can be bothered, perhaps the church can make good use of the holy artifacts to work magic like healing the sick. Sound like Indiana Jones? Just read Acts:
What say we submit these magic artifacts to scientists who can perform repeated experiments under peer review?
Or hey, why bother with artifacts? Those of faith can work healing magic under medical peer review, complete with double-blind case studies to weed out the placebo.
These are just a few verses I picked out for your consideration. There are many others that say much the same thing. The world of the Bible is drenched in the supernatural in overt ways that can't be mistaken for coincidence or natural occurrence. To quote every passage in the OT where "The Lord smote..." or "The Lord said unto..." would almost require reprinting the entire tome. The NT is similarly saturated with the supernatural, with people of faith working magic and invoking divine miracles that would rival any D&D campaign.
Then you put the Bible down and you look around, you see a very different universe than the one depicted in your scripture. The natural universe in which we live is a supernaturally tranquil place. Even by the accounts of your own religion in the modern day, your god works in a way mysterious to us. It seems that your god has become very withdrawn, the angels have moved away and no mortal has sufficient faith to even cast a Cure Light Wounds spell.
Do you begin to understand why I find the usual "step 1, blah blah blah, step 2 blah blah blah, step 3, therefore Jesus" arguments to be most underwhelming even before I point out all the fallacies? Given the promises of your scriptures and what they say about how the universe is supposed to work, it seems like you should be able to do better.
1. Yahweh could come down to earth and make a public speech.
Quote:Judges 1:1-2 Now after the death of Joshua it came to pass, that the children of Israel asked the LORD, saying, Who shall go up for us against the Canaanites first, to fight against them? And the LORD said, Judah shall go up: behold, I have delivered the land into his hand.
...or Yahweh could speak to us face to face.
Quote:Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
It's important to remember that Yahweh, your god, only later became this distant, enigmatic force in the universe. In the early books of the Bible, he was a "hands on" deity complete with an anthropomorphic incarnation. He commonly spoke to various prophets and interacted with them as a character in the story, frequently without the need for pyrotechnic effects like a burning bush.
Even in the New Testament, Yahweh wasn't shy about speaking directly to the people as a booming voice from Heaven.
Quote:Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
So how come Yahweh has become so shy today?
2. If the big guy can't make it, he can send one of his angels.
One of them could tell us "he is risen" as easily as they told Mary.
Quote:Matt 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
Or perhaps perform some other duty like a jailbreak or a public assassination:
Quote:Acts 5:19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth,
Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
But hey, if none of the Heavenly Host can be bothered, perhaps the church can make good use of the holy artifacts to work magic like healing the sick. Sound like Indiana Jones? Just read Acts:
Quote:Acts 19:11-12 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
What say we submit these magic artifacts to scientists who can perform repeated experiments under peer review?
Or hey, why bother with artifacts? Those of faith can work healing magic under medical peer review, complete with double-blind case studies to weed out the placebo.
Quote:Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
These are just a few verses I picked out for your consideration. There are many others that say much the same thing. The world of the Bible is drenched in the supernatural in overt ways that can't be mistaken for coincidence or natural occurrence. To quote every passage in the OT where "The Lord smote..." or "The Lord said unto..." would almost require reprinting the entire tome. The NT is similarly saturated with the supernatural, with people of faith working magic and invoking divine miracles that would rival any D&D campaign.
Then you put the Bible down and you look around, you see a very different universe than the one depicted in your scripture. The natural universe in which we live is a supernaturally tranquil place. Even by the accounts of your own religion in the modern day, your god works in a way mysterious to us. It seems that your god has become very withdrawn, the angels have moved away and no mortal has sufficient faith to even cast a Cure Light Wounds spell.
Do you begin to understand why I find the usual "step 1, blah blah blah, step 2 blah blah blah, step 3, therefore Jesus" arguments to be most underwhelming even before I point out all the fallacies? Given the promises of your scriptures and what they say about how the universe is supposed to work, it seems like you should be able to do better.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
