(December 12, 2013 at 2:28 am)Esquilax Wrote:(December 11, 2013 at 3:40 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Perhaps I was oversimplifiying evolution. But the concept of chance through time is how I was taught. Your quote is "The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance." No where in your quote are the words "natural selection". It does say that: "evolution proceeds by random chance" (and it "proceeds" through time). I think we can all agree that evolution is said to have taken time and that it happened through chance. Would "chance through time and natural selection" be a better definition? I think either way to respond to the op my "outside of scripture" evidence is creation.
So, the mutations that fuel evolution are random, in that there's nothing to guide their appearance in organisms or anything like that, but once they're actually present in a creature, that animal is exposed to a number of defined, real conditions, both in the environment and in relation to the physical form of the organism itself. There's no chance involved from that point; each change is scaffolded by the ones that came before, in terms of success or failure. Any given mutation may be random, but whether or not it aids the organism involved is not.
But I'm also interested in this claim you made that your evidence beyond the scriptures is creation: you don't feel compelled to demonstrate that there is a creation before you say that?
I'm defining creation, as Simon Moon commented on, as existence. I called it creation instead. The earth, sun, moon, stars, animals, plants, etc. Everything we "percieve" through our senses. I pruposed that existence (creation) points intuitively to an intelligent designer. I believe it to be far more likely things are created rather than they just happened. Simon Moon propsed that "existance is evidence of existance", that there cannot be any further deductions, conclusions, or intuitions to be drawn from that observation.