Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: January 21, 2025, 3:37 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Math and Reality
#13
RE: Math and Reality
That mathematical concepts don't follow reality is demonstrated by the history of Euclid's Geometry (EG).

Standard or Euclidean geometry is based on five basic postulates:
1. Any two points can be connected by a straight line.
2. A finite line may be extended indefinitely in a straight line.
3. A circle may be drawn with any given center and any given radius.
4. All right angles are equal to one another.
5. That, if a straight line falling on two straight lines makes the interior angles on the same side less than two right angles, the two straight lines, if produced indefinitely, meet on that side on which are the angles less than the two right angles.

From these five postulates all of Euclidean geometry can be deduced. And Euclid's attempt at it is quite convincing. Around 300 BC he put it in the 13 collected books of Euclid. For centuries mathematicians believed the oddly phrased out of place fifth postulate could be deduced from the preceding four. Over the ages many would announce a derivation of the parallel postulate (fifth postulate) that would later be disproved.

But then Girolamo Saccheri (1667-1733) decided to deny the fifth postulate and see where subsequent deductions would lead him. He was led to the outrageous result that the sum of angles of a triangle could be less than 180 degrees. It convinced him the parallel postulate should be true. As hard as was tried by him and others no logical contradictions were ever found. Non-Euclidean geometry was self-consistent. What then are we to think of the question whether Euclidean geometry is true? It has no meaning.

In the 1800s when elliptic and hyperbolic geometry were developed the foundations of mathematics were shaken. This was a time when mathematics flew off the landscape of reality into a far more expansive plane. Before there was a confidence that Euclidean geometry was absolute and somehow real, but now the validity of one geometry over another could only be verified from experiment.

They were all true in the sense that they were all logically deduced and could be applied to certain circumstances. No one was any more insightful than another, but each provided very rich and exotic structures that could be analyzed rigorously. With Einstein’s general relativity (1915), a vastly new universe was revealed exposing Euclidean geometry for what it was: a simplification of reality. In the neighbourhood of mass the sum of angles of a triangle could indeed be less than 180 degrees.
"I'm like a rabbit suddenly trapped, in the blinding headlights of vacuous crap" - Tim Minchin in "Storm"
Christianity is perfect bullshit, christians are not - Purple Rabbit, honouring CS Lewis
Faith is illogical - fr0d0
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Math and Reality - by Purple Rabbit - February 14, 2010 at 7:43 am
RE: Math and Reality - by Violet - February 14, 2010 at 4:39 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by fr0d0 - February 14, 2010 at 5:16 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Purple Rabbit - February 14, 2010 at 5:05 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Violet - February 14, 2010 at 6:30 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Purple Rabbit - February 14, 2010 at 5:22 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by fr0d0 - February 14, 2010 at 5:51 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by TruthWorthy - February 14, 2010 at 7:50 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by tackattack - February 15, 2010 at 8:30 am
RE: Math and Reality - by Rhizomorph13 - February 15, 2010 at 12:29 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Purple Rabbit - February 15, 2010 at 5:01 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by mannaka - March 17, 2012 at 8:01 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Categories+Sheaves - March 18, 2012 at 9:11 am
RE: Math and Reality - by mannaka - March 18, 2012 at 1:35 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Violet - February 15, 2010 at 5:49 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Purple Rabbit - February 16, 2010 at 3:20 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Violet - March 18, 2012 at 11:41 am
RE: Math and Reality - by Rhizomorph13 - March 18, 2012 at 1:26 pm
RE: Math and Reality - by Categories+Sheaves - March 18, 2012 at 3:42 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Math game Fake Messiah 47 6688 October 14, 2023 at 4:38 pm
Last Post: GrandizerII
  [Serious] What are your overall opinions on people who are idiots in math? Gentle_Idiot 41 7881 December 18, 2022 at 11:02 am
Last Post: polymath257
  I hate math Woah0 5 1395 September 25, 2022 at 5:10 am
Last Post: Leonardo17
  Math problem that is driving the Internet crazy GrandizerII 49 9281 April 27, 2020 at 8:55 pm
Last Post: Smaug
  Explain the Math - Must Be Rocket Scientist to Participate. T0 Th3 M4X 13 2494 December 3, 2018 at 7:21 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  Can you cut a cake fairly to solve this middle school math problem? Whateverist 82 16662 August 7, 2017 at 12:10 pm
Last Post: Joods
  Why Do You Like Math? Kernel Sohcahtoa 33 7232 February 5, 2017 at 6:49 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Great math interaction site for "beginners" (algebra, geometry, even calculus) GrandizerII 3 1761 October 20, 2016 at 10:48 pm
Last Post: Jehanne
  Can you solve this 6th grade math problem? pocaracas 52 12982 August 15, 2016 at 10:03 am
Last Post: wiploc
  Math Educations: who needs it, how much and when? Whateverist 49 15963 February 28, 2016 at 6:16 pm
Last Post: Chas



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)