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The Bible is the claim, not the evidence
#78
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence
(December 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: Do I have this right? Mutation is synonomous with chance. So mutation (chance) occurs, then natural selection eliminates the harmful or unbeneficial chance and the good chance survives to enter into another state of mutation (chance) and this cycle occurs for millions of years (time). So if I say chance through natural selection and time is that an accurate definition?

Among the synonyms for 'chance' I doubt 'mutation' should be concluded. Mutations follow the laws of organic chemistry, they're not entirely random. It's like picking a card out of a deck: you might get a three of clubs, but you'll never get a rock. Genes can only change in certain ways. But your third sentence wasn't far-off if you take out the attempts to make mutation and chance synonymous, it's about right.

If you said 'random natural variations due to genetic mutation that differentially affect reproductive success and thus are subject to natural selection forces which eliminate the variations that are consistently reproductively unsuccessful', that would be a pretty accurate description.

(December 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: I'm defining creation, as Simon Moon commented on, as existence. I called it creation instead. The earth, sun, moon, stars, animals, plants, etc. Everything we "percieve" through our senses. I pruposed that existence (creation) points intuitively to an intelligent designer.

I agree with you. We make things and when we wonder how other things came to be, it's natural (intuitive) to consider that someone besides us made the other things. A bigger 'maker', maybe. However, our intuitions are not reliable sources of information. A major part of science is preventing our intuition (bias) from influencing our findings. Much of what science helps us discover is counter-intuitive. The earth looks flat, but it's actually nearly a sphere. The earth is going around the sun, the sun isn't going around the earth. Time slows down for you when you go faster. The universe is made of stuff we can barely begin to imagine. And the apparent design and wonderful variet of living things is entirely explained by the differential reproductive success of living organism starting from simple microbes over about four billion years. I agree that intuition tells us otherwise. But intuition is often wrong.

(December 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm)orangebox21 Wrote: I believe it to be far more likely things are created rather than they just happened. Simon Moon propsed that "existance is evidence of existance", that there cannot be any further deductions, conclusions, or intuitions to be drawn from that observation.

No valid deduction can be made from the mere fact that we perceive (on a very basic level) existence except the obvious tautology. We have to study and examine and discover and learn about existence, and we then can draw tentative conclusions from the things that we learn, subject to revision if we learn something new that shows our previous conclusions to be incorrect.
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Messages In This Thread
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 1:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by EgoRaptor - December 11, 2013 at 2:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Simon Moon - December 11, 2013 at 4:25 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 11, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 12, 2013 at 2:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:44 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 2:04 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - December 13, 2013 at 1:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 13, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Simon Moon - December 11, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 14, 2013 at 1:34 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 3:40 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Crossless1 - December 11, 2013 at 3:43 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Crossless1 - December 11, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 12, 2013 at 2:28 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 12, 2013 at 3:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by I am God - December 12, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 13, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Whateverist - December 13, 2013 at 1:26 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mister Agenda - December 13, 2013 at 5:45 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by max-greece - December 14, 2013 at 5:51 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 14, 2013 at 11:57 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 14, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by ThomM - December 11, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 8:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 10:05 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 10:07 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 10:08 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 9:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - December 12, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 8:49 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Silver - December 12, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 9:10 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 13, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - December 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 13, 2013 at 8:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 14, 2013 at 6:09 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 13, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 14, 2013 at 3:01 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 14, 2013 at 3:30 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 14, 2013 at 3:45 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 14, 2013 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 14, 2013 at 1:23 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 14, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 14, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 14, 2013 at 6:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 15, 2013 at 11:20 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 15, 2013 at 4:39 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 15, 2013 at 11:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Dragonetti - December 17, 2013 at 7:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by feeling - December 17, 2013 at 7:39 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 17, 2013 at 11:08 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 16, 2013 at 9:33 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 17, 2013 at 1:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 17, 2013 at 1:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 17, 2013 at 3:01 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by ThomM - December 17, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 1:01 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 18, 2013 at 8:57 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 17, 2013 at 2:10 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Zen Badger - December 17, 2013 at 7:22 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 17, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 17, 2013 at 9:07 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 17, 2013 at 9:52 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 18, 2013 at 8:31 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Max_Kolbe - December 18, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 18, 2013 at 8:40 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Silver - December 18, 2013 at 8:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Whateverist - December 18, 2013 at 9:21 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 19, 2013 at 7:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 19, 2013 at 10:24 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 20, 2013 at 12:08 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 20, 2013 at 12:10 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 23, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 23, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 24, 2013 at 1:48 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 24, 2013 at 2:04 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Wolf - December 20, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 1:52 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 24, 2013 at 2:32 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 24, 2013 at 3:14 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 24, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Jackalope - December 24, 2013 at 2:44 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 24, 2013 at 4:05 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 24, 2013 at 10:47 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 24, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 24, 2013 at 6:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 25, 2013 at 6:26 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 25, 2013 at 11:31 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 28, 2013 at 5:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 28, 2013 at 4:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Anomalocaris - December 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 29, 2013 at 2:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 29, 2013 at 7:55 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Drich - January 4, 2014 at 2:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 3, 2014 at 11:14 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Wolf - January 4, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 14, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 14, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 23, 2014 at 7:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by shep - February 23, 2014 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 19, 2014 at 11:29 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 19, 2014 at 11:56 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 20, 2014 at 12:04 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 20, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 21, 2014 at 12:27 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - January 23, 2014 at 11:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 24, 2014 at 12:17 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mudhammam - January 25, 2014 at 3:56 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - January 26, 2014 at 11:15 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 30, 2014 at 4:18 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Wolf - January 30, 2014 at 10:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 30, 2014 at 5:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 31, 2014 at 1:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 3, 2014 at 10:50 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 3, 2014 at 11:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 12:19 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - February 8, 2014 at 7:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 27, 2014 at 11:18 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 27, 2014 at 4:21 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - January 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 20, 2014 at 3:17 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 25, 2014 at 4:12 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 25, 2014 at 4:14 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 25, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 25, 2014 at 8:31 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mudhammam - January 28, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - January 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - February 3, 2014 at 11:01 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 8, 2014 at 8:33 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 9, 2014 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 3:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 7:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 8:04 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 7:22 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 9:28 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Crossless1 - February 10, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by DeistPaladin - February 10, 2014 at 10:23 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 11, 2014 at 7:11 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - February 9, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - February 27, 2014 at 10:59 am
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Rampant.A.I. - February 10, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 13, 2014 at 2:19 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 13, 2014 at 2:48 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 19, 2014 at 1:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 19, 2014 at 2:51 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - February 13, 2014 at 3:07 am
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Rampant.A.I. - February 19, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - February 23, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 23, 2014 at 10:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 26, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 26, 2014 at 9:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 26, 2014 at 11:54 pm
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Rampant.A.I. - February 26, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 26, 2014 at 10:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 27, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 27, 2014 at 4:15 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 27, 2014 at 4:22 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 27, 2014 at 9:29 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - February 27, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mystical - February 27, 2014 at 10:49 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by SteelCurtain - February 26, 2014 at 10:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mystical - February 26, 2014 at 11:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 27, 2014 at 4:24 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 27, 2014 at 4:27 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 27, 2014 at 4:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 27, 2014 at 11:02 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mystical - February 27, 2014 at 5:20 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by DeistPaladin - February 27, 2014 at 10:08 am

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