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The Bible is the claim, not the evidence
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence
(December 23, 2013 at 12:27 am)orangebox21 Wrote: If you say you can only speak for yourself you imply that standards are relative, that they are not absolute. Do I have that correct? And if the standards for evidence/proof are relative how could a person prove anything to you? If you accept "relative" standards then you would have to accept anyone's proof/evidence so long as they fit within their own set of standards for evidence.

I'd suggest that the standards I'd given, things that are demonstrable and repeatable and so on, are absolute in that they're objectively verifiable, and objectively real: things that exist exist, and if you can show them to exist you've proved that they exist. Good job.

But the question you asked was, what is the atheist standard for proof or evidence, and that's ill-formed in some ways, because atheists are only unified in their acceptance of a single position: disbelief in god claims. Other than that, their standards can vary, but that's not an exclusively atheist thing, everyone does that; even among the religious, you have people accepting their religion on faith, and those who go looking for evidence first. Hell, there are christians who believe in alien abductions, and also those who don't because their standard for evidence is different enough to exclude those accounts from the category of believability. And that's ignoring the obvious differences between biblical literalists and those who take the less believable stories to just be metaphor. To say that atheists therefore have relative standards is to ignore the fact that everyone has an internalized standard of what's believable to them.

I'd say that the standards I gave are the minimum threshold for evidence: if something exists and you can demonstrate it, what's the problem? Where do the further questions come in? If something exists and is demonstrable, it would be crazier not to believe it's there, no?

Also, I take issue with your claim that accepting the idea that people bring their own standards of evidence to the table requires me to accept everyone's evidence as sufficient so long as it's sufficient to them: that doesn't follow at all. Why would you think that?

Edited to add: Oh, and when I say I only speak for myself, that's me being polite. I don't want to put words into anyone else's mouth. You didn't need to spin my polite invitation for anyone else to chime in with more into this whole thing about relative standards, that's just silly.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee

Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
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Messages In This Thread
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 1:28 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 1:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Drich - December 11, 2013 at 1:43 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by EgoRaptor - December 11, 2013 at 2:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Simon Moon - December 11, 2013 at 4:25 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 11, 2013 at 7:16 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 12, 2013 at 2:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 1:44 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 2:04 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 2:31 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 2:19 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 3:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - December 13, 2013 at 1:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 13, 2013 at 7:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 10:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 10:51 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Simon Moon - December 11, 2013 at 4:54 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 14, 2013 at 1:34 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 2:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 3:40 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Crossless1 - December 11, 2013 at 3:43 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Crossless1 - December 11, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 3:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 12, 2013 at 2:28 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 12, 2013 at 3:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by I am God - December 12, 2013 at 4:18 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 13, 2013 at 1:18 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Whateverist - December 13, 2013 at 1:26 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 12, 2013 at 9:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 8:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 11, 2013 at 4:26 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 5:38 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 12, 2013 at 2:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by max-greece - December 14, 2013 at 5:51 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 14, 2013 at 11:57 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 14, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by ThomM - December 11, 2013 at 6:05 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 7:19 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 8:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 11, 2013 at 10:05 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 11, 2013 at 10:07 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 11, 2013 at 10:08 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 9:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 10:18 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 3:03 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 3:08 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - December 12, 2013 at 8:54 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 8:49 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Silver - December 12, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 12, 2013 at 9:10 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 12, 2013 at 9:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 12, 2013 at 11:42 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 13, 2013 at 1:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - December 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 13, 2013 at 1:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 13, 2013 at 8:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Duck - December 14, 2013 at 6:09 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 13, 2013 at 6:14 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 14, 2013 at 3:01 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 14, 2013 at 3:30 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 14, 2013 at 3:45 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 14, 2013 at 1:19 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 14, 2013 at 1:23 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 14, 2013 at 4:27 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 14, 2013 at 4:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 14, 2013 at 6:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 15, 2013 at 11:20 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 15, 2013 at 4:39 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 15, 2013 at 11:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Dragonetti - December 17, 2013 at 7:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by feeling - December 17, 2013 at 7:39 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 17, 2013 at 11:08 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 6:36 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 16, 2013 at 9:33 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 17, 2013 at 1:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 17, 2013 at 1:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 17, 2013 at 3:01 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by ThomM - December 17, 2013 at 4:07 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by RDK - January 4, 2014 at 1:01 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - December 18, 2013 at 8:57 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 17, 2013 at 2:10 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Zen Badger - December 17, 2013 at 7:22 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 17, 2013 at 7:20 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 17, 2013 at 9:07 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 17, 2013 at 9:52 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 18, 2013 at 8:31 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Max_Kolbe - December 18, 2013 at 8:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 18, 2013 at 8:40 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Silver - December 18, 2013 at 8:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Whateverist - December 18, 2013 at 9:21 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ksa - December 19, 2013 at 7:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 19, 2013 at 10:24 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 20, 2013 at 12:08 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 20, 2013 at 12:10 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 23, 2013 at 12:27 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 23, 2013 at 12:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 24, 2013 at 1:48 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 24, 2013 at 2:04 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Wolf - December 20, 2013 at 9:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 20, 2013 at 1:52 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - December 24, 2013 at 2:32 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - December 24, 2013 at 3:14 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - December 24, 2013 at 11:49 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Jackalope - December 24, 2013 at 2:44 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 24, 2013 at 4:05 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 24, 2013 at 10:47 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 24, 2013 at 5:24 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - December 24, 2013 at 6:48 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 25, 2013 at 6:26 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 25, 2013 at 11:31 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - December 28, 2013 at 5:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 28, 2013 at 4:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Anomalocaris - December 29, 2013 at 12:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 29, 2013 at 2:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - December 29, 2013 at 7:55 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Drich - January 4, 2014 at 2:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 3, 2014 at 11:14 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Wolf - January 4, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 14, 2014 at 7:24 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 14, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 23, 2014 at 7:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by shep - February 23, 2014 at 9:14 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 19, 2014 at 11:29 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 19, 2014 at 11:56 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 20, 2014 at 12:04 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 20, 2014 at 1:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 21, 2014 at 12:27 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - January 23, 2014 at 11:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 24, 2014 at 12:17 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mudhammam - January 25, 2014 at 3:56 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - January 26, 2014 at 11:15 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 30, 2014 at 4:18 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Wolf - January 30, 2014 at 10:52 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 30, 2014 at 5:35 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 31, 2014 at 1:38 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 3, 2014 at 10:50 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 3, 2014 at 11:53 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 9, 2014 at 12:19 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - February 8, 2014 at 7:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - January 27, 2014 at 11:18 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 27, 2014 at 4:21 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - January 20, 2014 at 1:47 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 20, 2014 at 3:17 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 25, 2014 at 4:12 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by WesOlsen - January 25, 2014 at 4:14 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 25, 2014 at 1:55 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - January 25, 2014 at 8:31 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - January 25, 2014 at 8:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mudhammam - January 28, 2014 at 12:23 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - January 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - February 3, 2014 at 11:01 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 8, 2014 at 8:33 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 9, 2014 at 1:57 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 2:23 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 3:37 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 7:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by truthBtold - February 9, 2014 at 8:04 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 7:22 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 9:28 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 10:07 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Tonus - February 10, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Crossless1 - February 10, 2014 at 10:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by DeistPaladin - February 10, 2014 at 10:23 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 10, 2014 at 10:36 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 11, 2014 at 7:11 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - February 9, 2014 at 9:06 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Chas - February 27, 2014 at 10:59 am
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Rampant.A.I. - February 10, 2014 at 2:46 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 13, 2014 at 2:19 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 13, 2014 at 2:48 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 19, 2014 at 1:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 19, 2014 at 2:51 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - February 13, 2014 at 3:07 am
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Rampant.A.I. - February 19, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Minimalist - February 23, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 23, 2014 at 10:32 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by orangebox21 - February 26, 2014 at 2:49 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 26, 2014 at 9:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 26, 2014 at 11:54 pm
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Rampant.A.I. - February 26, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 26, 2014 at 10:12 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 27, 2014 at 1:10 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 27, 2014 at 4:15 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 27, 2014 at 4:22 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Bad Writer - February 27, 2014 at 9:29 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Ryantology - February 27, 2014 at 10:20 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mystical - February 27, 2014 at 10:49 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by SteelCurtain - February 26, 2014 at 10:59 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mystical - February 26, 2014 at 11:30 pm
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 27, 2014 at 4:24 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 27, 2014 at 4:27 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by fr0d0 - February 27, 2014 at 4:50 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Esquilax - February 27, 2014 at 11:02 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by Mystical - February 27, 2014 at 5:20 am
RE: The Bible is the claim, not the evidence - by DeistPaladin - February 27, 2014 at 10:08 am

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