RE: More Evidence...as if it were needed...that White Evangelicals
January 5, 2014 at 11:27 am
(This post was last modified: January 5, 2014 at 12:45 pm by Fidel_Castronaut.)
(January 5, 2014 at 7:24 am)là bạn điên Wrote:(January 5, 2014 at 6:22 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Err, I wouldn't say that's true.
The Conservatives are much more 'religious' than either the centre or the left, at least currently. Sure, under New Labour you had the increasing domination of the Christian Socialist Movement headed up by people like Blair and Brown, but in all honesty, the NL movement was much more right wing than left.
How are the conservatives more religious? the fulcrum is where the median of the country is and it changes. NL were still to the left of the Conservative party.
Err, no, they really weren't. You're free to disagree, but you'll be hard pushed to find anyone who thinks that NL were anything but centre-right Thatcherite relics.
And really, no specific party is 'religious' per se. But, as I elucidated, the centre-right of the Tories are very much still imbued with religious MPs who utilise religious rhetoric. And not all of them are Christian. Baroness Varsy anyone?
Just look up some individual MPs in the the Conservative's and you'll see. Cameron himself is very much an ardent supporter of an entrenched and established CofE, despite his recent attacks on opponents of gay marraige.
If you don't believe me, do the research, it's not hard. It'd be silly to think that there were no religionists in the Tory party :\.
(January 5, 2014 at 7:24 am)là bạn điên Wrote:Quote:Indeed, the expansion of policies on things such as faith schools were advocated first by centre-right MPs under NL and then supported (and currently expanded on) by Conservatives through policies such as free schools and academies which are often funded by faith NGOs. We certainly do have a religious right, but they're just not as obvious as they are in America (where they're fronted by a entire party). New statesman (I know, nobody really reads it) did do a good article: http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/201...or-reality
So I just read the article and it really just confirms my viewpoint.
(January 5, 2014 at 7:24 am)là bạn điên Wrote:Quote:Quote
Evidence from the British Social Attitudes survey suggests that the most religiously observant voters (Catholic and Evangelical alike) tend to be considerably to the left of the general population on economic issues, even while holding extremely conservative views on such issues on gay rights and premarital sex.
The article is trying very hard to try and demonstrate a religious right and fails. There seem to be some tiny fringe groups.
There appear to be 8 MPs who identify as evangelical christians and they are evenly split between Labour and Tory
Faith schools went through a massive expansion under Labour
NEW labour.
New Labour were comprised of new centre-right Thatcherites that advocated quasi-privatization (more privatization under NL for the NHS than even Thatcher herself) of public sector bodies to such a degree that people appear to forget that Tory schemes such as PFI were expanded several times over anything that Major attempted.
The only reason Blair kept Brown on in the position of Chancellor was because he represented a Presbyterian link to old religious socialist labour. But he still towed the line when it came to matters of the new centre-right.
And since when did this just become about evangelism? In your original post you talked about 'religion' per se. Why have the goal posts moved in this post? you have people like Keith Vaz, supporter of the rushdie book burnings on the left, and Varsi, supporter of islamic rights protection and anti-secular on the right (former vice chairwoman of the party).
(January 5, 2014 at 7:24 am)là bạn điên Wrote:Quote:There have been controversies about MPs and evolution in the past, especially (again) on faith schools and the support by NL for the Reg Vardy backed Emmanuel college in the mid 2000's who taught creationism as a trump to evolution.
Reg Vardy is a businessman and owns stagecoach. He is not and never has been an MP
you're missing the point and being intentionally obtuse.
I never once claimed that he was an MP. I said he was supported by some MPs, and by the general consensus within the NL parliament that faith based education was a boon. Please dont misrepresent my point or I will report you.
(January 5, 2014 at 7:24 am)là bạn điên Wrote:Quote:I have no doubt there are certainly MPs in the British parliament who reject evolution. I'm sure a lot of the Northern Ireland MPs would for example.
NI is the most religious part of the UK and certainly the DUP is the party of choice for evangelicals it might be that they have members who do not beleive in Evolution. 2 of their MPS have campaigned for the rights of creationists not to be penalised by the education system for their views and there is widespread homophobia. If Northern Ireland was an independent state then you could legitimately say that there was a religious right UK as a whole -not a chance.
There is NO religious right of any appreciable size whatsoever. The issues that the religious right in the US campaign on are now non issues in the UK. Abortion, teaching creationism/Intelligent design even Gay marriage now that the Conservative party introduced it
Just because you don't count NI doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does, and forms part of the UK legislature in Westminster, and religion imbued with their parties forms a large part of the general religionism in westminster.
And you're very, very wrong regarding the non-issues of the topics you highlight. Hell, even recently there was a concerted drive in both the commons and lords by some MPs (Nadine Dorris, On the right!) to reevaluate legislation on abortion time limits:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20079031
Supported in part by Jeremy Hunt, who happens to be health secretary.
Then you have folk like Liam Fox who is an ardent advocate for anti-abortion campaigns.
and to say gay marraige is a non-issue the same year there has been a bitter row in both parliament in the public about it is just astounding. So the general agreement by both parliament and the public is that gay marriage is good to go, legally speaking, but how can you possible arrive at the conclusion that for the many millions who disagreed with it is now currently a non-issue? We both agree that we think they're wrong, but still. You can't simply dismiss the inherent disagreements that still permeate several communities here in the UK. And the teaching of creationism...I just gave you evidence of where it IS an issue. there has been a constant battle in the debate over faith schools over how science is taught in relation to the specific religions. The faith based education sector saw massive and sustained growth both under the centre-right NL and the current Tory government:
Walford, G. (2008) 'Faith-based schools in England after 10 years of tony Blair', Oxford Review of Education, 34 (6), pp. 689-699
Williams, J.D. (2008) 'Creationist Teaching in School Science: A UK Perspective', Education and Outreach, 1 (1), pp. 87-95
There are many more articles that go into more detail, but this is all I cold dredge up from my research on short notice. Just recently there was an Islamic free school shut down by OFSTED after being accused of using harsh Rules to enforce strict sharia in Derby. A free school supported and originating from Gove's free school enterprise. Gove is anar dent supporter of faith schools and a practicing Presbyterian.
If you want to read up on it, here's a select few citations from my PhD that are informative about the Conservative religious renewal in recent times and the right-wing supporters of NL throughout the 90s and 00s (Note, not all are relevant as I don't have time to go through them individually, but there are some good articles to read):
![[Image: 146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i629.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu13%2FRXM843%2F146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif)
