FREE WILL! why cant god physically show himself?

[MindForgedManacle]

[quote='MindForgedManacle' pid='584154' dateline='1389881462']
There's actually a really good YouTube counter-apologetic video on this:

"Theistic Argument Against Apologetics"

I completly agree, The primary arguement against Theology is the desire to not be held accountable to God's law, that way we can live any way we choose.
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Yeah, no. Nice red herring and completely nonseical statement. And that doesn't even have anything to do with the video.

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[quote='MindForgedManacle' pid='584159' dateline='1389882237']
[quote='Drich' pid='584152' dateline='1389881305']
what does completely independant will mean in this context?
It means were are not allow to choose what ever we want, however it does not proclude all choice, Meaning we do have the ablity to choose something that we have been given over to choose from. Which if you took the time to read what i actually wrote you would have seen that, we have been given a choice. To remain in sin or to seek redemption from it.

I'm sorry Drich, but what you're talking about has nothing to do with free will or choice. If we don't have a completely independent will, we don't choose anything because we have no control over how our 'wills' act outside our control. what you're talking about is autonomy which itself is not really the issue here.

because their lives did not center around one choice, but to gather people and teach or prepare them of the choice they were given.

So in other words, you retract your claim of God revealing himself would destroy the purpose of our lives then. Because then God could just reveal himself to everyone, and thus it wouldn't be "centered around one choice", as you put it.

It is revealed to us Via the Holy Spirit when we Ask, Seek and knock for it as outlined by Luke 11...
-Or did you think I and people like me seek to spend their lives telling people about what they have found from a complete vacuum?

And this is the usual Christian cop-out. All it is is an attempted shield from the fact that there are those who clearly seek, and yet do not find. Or they find, but later see that what they thought they found was ephemeral, and continue elsewhere.

The vacuum of your mental masturbation, perhaps. After all, I was once like you, a fudie-evangelical type.

But when you truly love someone and do not get love in return do you stop loving them? If your child got sick and could not respond to you (could not get love in return from them) would you stop loving your child?

You misunderstand (and actually just evaded, as I'll show). You get the pleasure of loving that person, you don't actually need reciprocation to get the pleasure out of it. Why do you think stories of the one-sided lover are so relateable? Further, in this case (with God) it is emphatically a situation wherein we ARE loved in return, so you poorly dodged that one.

The trials we face sometimes makes us feel as if we are not high on the list of those in whom God loves, but it is those in whom God chasens that He loves the most. For it is the trials that push us to grow spiritually.

So even here, you agree with what I just said above.

Many go through the motions of Christianity now, and yet they do not know God. How many more would be going through those motions if the threat and danger of hell were as real as the grand canyon? Like if you could goto a place and see your buddies suffer.. how many would go through the motions that really hated and resented God, just on the off chance they would save themselves?

Are you a complete dunce? NO ONE who KNEW (in other words, could not be wrong about) the fact that they would be infinitely tortured would risk it. There would be NO chance of saving yourself in such a world, and given one's knowledge of God's (and Hell's) existence, it would never happen.

Where is the Calvinist who believes themself to be unelect? Where is the Armenian who believes in the saving power of Christ, and yet chooses not to believe anyway? We already see that in this world, much less in a world where it is completely known that God and Hell are real.

I disagree, and history disagrees with you. Look at the dark ages, when as far as everyone knew Hell was real and look at the corruption that took place in the name of faith.. Evil men will be evil no matter the context. At least this way we can be honest with ourselves.

And again, you are a dunce. You're talking about people BELIEVING Hell is real, versus a possible world where they KNOW it is real. I don't merely believe 2+2 = 4, I know it. If I (or anyone) had comparable knowledge of the existence of Hell and God, given the value-set of basically any person ever, it would be no question in accepting God. Making this facile and patently disanalogus comparison to our world is thoroughly mistaken.

blueberry or plain?

Fundie-proselytizing flavor.