RE: No Proof = No Knowledge
January 16, 2014 at 6:19 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2014 at 6:44 pm by Sword of Christ.)
(January 16, 2014 at 3:06 pm)Pickup_shonuff Wrote: Do you have even one reason for believing in Paul's testimony, besides the fact that you read it in a book and decided it felt true to you? Why didn't you say so earlier!?
If God exists, and you can deduce this for various good rational reasons (there is nothing wrong with the concept that I'm aware of) and this God can reveal himself to us (and there is no reason why he wouldn't) then why can't this event be a genuine revelation from the real God in question? Certainly there's a precedent for the mystical state and altered states of consciousness which is universal throughout the world and encompasses all of human history and pre-history. So if you have an objection to this what exactly is it? You can't just say it can't be a genuine revelation from God because your own opinion says it isn't, why do have the opinion you have? You're meant to be presenting some kind of rational case against the existence of God and his revelation to man here though I haven't seen anything yet beyond the suggestion that St Paul had an epileptic fit. It's possible he did but that doesn't negate a genuine mystical experience.
(January 16, 2014 at 3:12 pm)pocaracas Wrote: Oh... so... evolution from australopithecus with no concept whatsoever of any divinity... at some point, the concept appears...
The concept appeared due to our heightened intellect and awareness, the rational mind, the knowledge of the world beyond the limits of the physical senses and the ultimate source behind all things. You begin with some kind primitive animism or shamanism but that's the root of all religion.
Quote:So, from the origins... from the stand point of no one even considering the existence of any god, "why should I suppose it is?"
Because you represent a fully self aware advanced and rational mind, capable of your own freedom of will, the knowledge of good and evil, fully constant of you're existence within the context of the universe and the greater eternal reality of which you are a part? Is that a good enough reason to suppose it is?
Quote:I have first hand evidence that it doesn't... I do have a pretty good notion of what my mind does and no such experience has ever manifested.
Perhaps you need to be spiritually awakened to the truth of the reality of God then. Most people do get this experience even Richard Dawkins gets this though he will explain it away as misfiring neurons rather than the God, he thinks he's some kind machine.
Quote:Plus, if it happened to everyone, we'd hear about on the news, twitter, facebook.... everywhere at the same time!
We can say it happens to the vast majority of billions, what do you think religion and spirituality is?
(January 16, 2014 at 3:31 pm)BadWriterSparty Wrote: What the fuck is the theists' fetish for equating atheism with materialism (and even naturalism, for that matter)? Why do I feel you are parroting what your pastor claims about atheists without ever thinking for yourself or doing your own research?
If you don't believe in God, a higher power, the supernatural/transcendent reality or whatever else you want to call it just the physical universe as it is that we can see and nothing else then what the fuck else are you meant to be than a materialist? You would be the definition of materialism if you reject or don't accept the existence of anything that is beyond the material and the natural world. As a belief it's possible but if it's actually true that's as big a deal as the alternative/s.
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.