(January 17, 2014 at 10:13 am)Esquilax Wrote: Three things come to mind: One, there isn't any evidence for god, just philosophical tricks and spin papering over legitimate scientific discoveries with wishful thinking.
That's your own opinion of the evidence we have. That's not the same thing as having no evidence. There's no proof certainly there would nothing to have an opinion on if we did, we would just know it factually. You don't need proof to have a reasonable belief based on evidence however.
Quote:Three, unless you can demonstrate that there's something other than matter, time and space, your claim that god lives beyond it and thus can't be tested is nonsensical, and begging the question.
You can't prove there is and you can't prove there isn't so either you believe there is or believe isn't based on the evidence we have. There is scientific evidence but there can be other kinds of evidences. Certainly nothing we know from science would negate the existence of God and may even point towards him if you into fine tuning of the cosmos in relation the conditions required for the complex structure of living beings to form. Heck there was even a point of creation where time itself began to exist. Theists were claiming that for thousands of years while atheists were postulating an eternally existent self contained universe.
Quote:And if I see a crime being committed, would you not say I have a moral duty to report it? If I see a rape in progress, would morality not dictate that it would be good to stop it? Does the fact that the rapist and criminal have free will in any way impact the moral nuances of the situations?
How about implanting a microchip in peoples brains that causes their head to explode if they attempt to do someone harm or do anything wrong in at all? Before the explosion they well have a splitting headache warning them not to carry out the action. God doesn't particularly want us to live under that kind of control he wants us as free agents. As free agents we can be good benefit other or evil and harm others. Without freewill we wouldn't have the true capacity for good or evil we would be controlled like machines.
Quote:And yet your claim is that god, who can see every crime and every rape, is somehow absolved from the same moral guidelines because those actions were freely chosen? And that's okay to you, from a being who you claim to be good and worthy of worship?
You're saying we should have no independent freedom from God?
Come all ye faithful joyful and triumphant.