(January 17, 2014 at 11:25 am)Sword of Christ Wrote: I'm pointing out what you believe if you only believe in material existence. Seriously though it's pretty straightforward logic you ought to understand this.
Yes, you're pointing out what we believe, if we only believe in material existence. But that's a pretty big if, and it's an assumption that you haven't justified, and not one that many of us are willing to share with you.
Most of us- and unlike you, I'm just going to throw this out to the others so that they can actually tell you what they believe- just state that they don't know whether material existence is or is not all there is, and leave it at that. It's the only honest answer right now; we don't know everything so we can't categorically deny the non-physical, but there's also little evidence to confirm such things, and so believing in them unreservedly is unjustified.
That's it. Anything else you try to pin on us, beyond that admission of not knowing, from this point on, is just lying.
Quote:If you only believe in matter/energy and what matter energy produces then you're a materialist.
"If."
Quote: That's not an assertion that's what you in fact actually are, if you don't believe in God or the equivalent. I shouldn't have to point this fact out to you. I know that you don't know this for for a fact but I don't know anything for a fact either so that's irrelevant.
No, actually: one could even believe in a soul without a god behind it. One could believe in all manner of things without a god behind it: god is not every possible non-physical thing, and there are more non-physical potentials than just god. There are sects of Buddhism that don't have god figures, but have nonmaterial teachings: you are simply demonstrably wrong, here.
Quote:Neither of us believes in the gods of Olympus or whatever and they would have been material beings like ourselves anyway just immortal. So that's completely irreverent to the subject of God or whatever else you want to call it, the eternal non-physical creator/purpose of existence, the higher power the source of morality and freewill. If you reject the existence in of this in favor of physical/natural explanations, which is what you're doing, then you're a materialist. Materialism is a valid position to take but it would help if you understand your own position.
It would help more if you'd actually bother to understand the position of the people you're talking to, rather than ramming them into categories they don't wish to share.
Again, I'm saying I don't know. There's no rejection of your god, there's no acceptance of solely material means; there's just the observation that you have failed to fulfill the burden of proof for the god you believe in, and are therefore not rationally justified in holding it.
"I don't know," is the only honest position you can hold on this question, at the moment. Why would I hold a different one?
Quote:Do you believe in something beyond the physical/the supernatural or don't you? This is a yes or no answer question.
There's always the third answer: I don't know. Why would I hold a position if I don't hold to either of the binary options you're attempting to force me into?
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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