(February 2, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Lek Wrote: When I talk about the universe, I'm refering to any material thing that ever existed. Now try to wrap your brain around this. I think that we can all agree that either the universe always existed or it came into being at some time from the nothing that was already there.
Problem is, you need to demonstrate that our Universe meets the definition of the set of all material things ever to exist. Those two are not necessarily the same thing. We don't know and most likely can never know what gave rise to the initial conditions that gave rise to the Universe we all know and love.
(February 2, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Lek Wrote: According to christians and many other theists God was not created. He always existed and has the power to create the universe. So either the universe always existed with no beginning or else it created itself, both of which require qualities of God.
So, according to the least credible authorities on the matter, "God" can be defined as possessing qualities that cannot possibly be known with any degree of certainty or consensus. That alone makes your conclusion highly suspect.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
