(February 2, 2014 at 10:20 pm)Lek Wrote:Calm down my fuzzy little man peach and take a deep breath. Focus on one claim at a time, and it's easier to sort it out. First of all, don't confuse yourself by thinking of the universe as something that must necessarily follow every rule that governs things within it. Nobody can know that, so you shouldn't pretend that you do either. Second, when you make the observation that everything is material, ask yourself why you feel the need to posit an additional substance. On what grounds were you able to rule out material explanations for existence? If you have none, and material is all that is, why would anyone feel compelled to invoke an additional substance? Aside from an unfalsifiable complication, what else is added?(February 2, 2014 at 5:49 pm)Cato Wrote: Nonsense. Who makes the claim that the universe came from nothing?
Also, your claims regarding the characteristics of God are unsubstantiated.
I was trying to make the point that either everything was either created or it always existed. So if everything that is material hasn't always existed, then it came into existence at some point from nothing (or maybe something non-material). So either it created itself or something non-material created it. When I spoke of God I was speaking of the characteristics of the christian God. You could assume it was something beyond what the universe is made from. The point is that it points to something other than the material world.
These are important checks and balances that you need to employ upon being offered these erroneous propositions. Why "must" anything? Is there good reason, or is someone just pushing bullshit to sell you a story? It's more than likely the latter, and you should proceed very cautiously.
