Slavery (on Thursdays)

[Ben Davis]

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This is just a mandate for vicarious redemption: utterly immoral as it divorces us from the responsibility and accountability we have for our actions. None of that makes it okay for christians either to own people as property or to deny that god mandated that people should be owned as property. How do you not see this?

Let me ask you something. Have you ever....
told a lie
stolen anything
Desired a woman sexually
Had premarital sex
Cheated someone
spoke evil of someone (name calling, gossip ect.)

that's all i can come up with off the top of my head, but if the answer is "yes" to any of those, then you are guilty under the law and deserving of death. But Instead of death, eternal life is freely given to anyone that wants it, and you somehow find that immoral.

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The question isn't 'have I done any of these things?', the question is 'do I want to take any responsibility for my actions?'. If my answer is 'yes', I have to reject the concept of vicarious redemption.

Also, you'd kill someone for gossiping?!?! That indicates a serious social disconnect and a lack of empathy.

Where is this mandate you speak of, I clearly posted where is was illegal to force someone into slavery against their will. Since question deals with ancient Jewish law which i am unfamiliar with, I'll just post a snippet from a Jewish website on the subject. (source http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTM...04-01.html)

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Question 1: Does Halacha Permit Jews to Own Slaves?

First, note that "Slavery" in the Torah generally refers to temporary indentured servitude to one's creditor. Such slavery was permitted under Jewish law. However, the treatment of Jews towards their slaves was much more humane than that of the surrounding culture, for a key element of Judaism is to remember that Jews were once slaves in Egypt (in fact, this is the central theme of the holiday of Pesach).

In Judaism, the slave was protected. Exodus 21:2-11 defines the rights of the servant. Quoting from the Hertz Penatateuch and Haftorahs:

Slavery, as permitted by the Torah was quite different from Greek and Roman Slavery, or even the cruel system in some modern countries down to our own times. In Hebrew law, the slave was not a thing, but a human being; he was not the chattel of a master who had unlimited power over him. In the Hebrew language, there is only one word for slave and servant. Brutal treatment of any slave, whether Hebrew or heathen, secures his immediate liberty.

Jewish law required that a slave could go free in the seventh year of service (Exodus 21:2), although his family would not be freed; although if he came into servitude with a wife, that wife would also be freed. The slave could, however, indicate that they perferred bondage to freedom. Every fiftieth year (the "Jubilee"), the slaves with their families would be emancipated, and property (except house property in a walled city) would revert to its original owner. (Lev XXV:8-55).

In Judaism, there is also the concept of an "Eved Canani", a non-Jewish slave, who is the property of a Jew, as is discussed in Vayikrah 25:46. This concept of slavery is nothing like slavery that occurred in America to the Negroes. The slaves were not kidnapped, but rather were purchased from themselves; i.e., they were offered a sum of money, or guaranteed shelter and food, in exchange for becoming slaves. The obligation to treat your slave humanely applies to both Jewish and non-Jewish slave, as does the obligation to make sure they have all necessary comforts, even at the expense of their master's own comfort (e.g., if there are not enough pillows for all, the master must provide his slaves with pillows before himself).

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There are a number of places in the bible where god specifically tells his people that they can take people as slaves/wives/chattel. Your post is just trying to provide 'contexts' in which slavery is okay (e.g. it's not the same slavery as we think of now o'days...). Nonsense. Slavery is never okay in any context and any value-set that tries to excuse or justify it is immoral in that regard.