(March 3, 2014 at 7:07 pm)discipulus Wrote:(March 3, 2014 at 5:29 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: OK, I'm done trying to have an honest discussion about religion with you because you're not discussing anything honestly. However, I can't resist setting you straight on this point:
Well then, you haven't spoken with very many people on the subject, at least none outside the prudish and hypocritical circles of Christianity.
Lust itself isn't bad nor is acting on it between consenting adults necessarily bad.
True, there are bad stories you can tell about lust, ones that involve for example stalking, harassment, deception or callousness. This only means that stalking, harassment, deception or callousness are bad. The logical fallacies here are over-reliance on anecdotal evidence and assumption of correlation proving causation, a.k.a. "post hoc ergo propter hoc". In this case, the latter fallacy is expressed as, "Here are stories about lust and deception; therefore lust involves deception"
Let me personal about this. I've had what I've called "dear friends", and have since learned that the colloquial is "friends with benefits." At all times that I've indulged in casual sex or in sex with friends-but-not-a-committed-relationship, whatever you call it, I've always made sure to use protection, avoid deception and respect the rights of the other.
On one occasion, the "lustful" sex was quite therapeutic for the other. She was a divorced woman. I didn't ask the details but I gathered it was a nasty one. She was not ready for another relationship and made that clear to me. We kept in touch as friends by email for a while afterwards. She told me how I showed her such a romantic time and helped her to heal. Last I heard, she was getting married having found a better man than before. I was happy for her and wished her well.
The rules I follow in and out of the bedroom are simple:
1. Act with integrity
2. Respect the rights of others
3. Take responsibility for your actions
These are simple rules of morality. Stay within these bounds and you can lust all you like.
Rational enough for you?
You and I will disagree on this and that is fine.
I have much to say on the subject and may do so in a separate thread if I have time.
How does one have sex without lust?
Christians take natural biological urges and invent negative ways of viewing such urges.
No, we shouldn't act on every urge, but lustful urges are biological. Nothing to be ashamed of as the Christian "church" would want us to believe.
Lusting after other people's significant others can be wrong and unethical but again, we can have urges yet control them.
Sex is a natural act and only religious people attach unnecessary stigmas to it. This has done more harm than good, and has caused a lot of unnecessary hang ups and issues for Christians surrounding sex.
Christians have the highest divorce rate, considerably higher than atheists and higher than other religious groups.
Inconvenient truths that even the best of apologists can't quite explain.
